"Letting Go: Trusting God in Life's Unpredictable Moments"

Join Pastor Joe Liles, Roseanne Bowen, and Pastor Tom Helmich as they dive deep into the challenging journey of trusting God when life's path seems foggy. In this raw and honest podcast, our hosts share personal stories of uncertainty, faith, and surrender.

Key Takeaways:

• Trust isn't just believing in God, it's surrendering to His plan
• Courage isn't the absence of fear, but facing challenges with trust
• God is the ultimate refuge, providing safety beyond our understanding

Memorable Quotes:

• "When I found the path was when I went back to God" - Pastor Joe Liles
• "Trust is the ability to see a character in someone that gives you assured confidence" - Pastor Joe
• "Courage is not the absence of fear, it is facing what God puts in your life with trust" - Roseanne Bowen

Perfect for anyone wrestling with life's uncertainties, feeling stuck, or seeking a deeper relationship with God. This podcast offers real talk about faith, vulnerability, and finding peace in God's plan.

Next week: Practical tips for leaning into God daily - you won't want to miss it!

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet the Hosts
• 3:45 Mountain Mover Series Overview
• 9:22 Personal Trust Journeys
• 17:50 Theological Deep Dive on Trusting God
• 27:36 Trusting God in Relationships
• 38:24 Daily practices for trusting God
• 44:47 Segment: Roseanne's Notes and Insights
• 49:36 Podcast Closing and Next Week Preview

Transcript

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:00

Guys ready? Yep. Welcome to the TNC podcast. We are recorded in studio, as we say, every single week, which is our worship center. It's not a crazy, fancy studio, unless you call the entire Worship Center a studio for podcasting, and that's where we're at. And we are three today, three hosts today in the podcast. We are missing Table. Table today is not feeling well, and so he is out. And so we want to lift up some prayers for him, definitely that he feels better. Um, there's something going around. Tom, you said that your son wasn't feeling

Tom Helmich: 0:30

well. Yeah, Connor had that day before yesterday, and yesterday fever and just body aches, headache, generally, feeling

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:36

ick, but testing negative for everything. Yeah, yeah, everything. So it's just an ick got something just man, that's rough. So yeah, definitely praying for table today. We hope that he feels better, and we know that they got baby in the house and different things like that. So that's hard, too. So that's just a moment, but we got three hosts with us today on the podcast. To my left, the wonderful Roseanne Bowen, Director of Operations here at the neighborhood church. And to my right,

Tom Helmich: 0:58

Tom, Pastor.

Pastor Joe Liles: 1:00

Tom, Yeah, whoa, whoa, he still doesn't have it. You know, he said he was going to struggle with it. He's still struggling. I'm still struggling. Yeah, it's, what can you say? Pastor Tom, Pastor Tom, that's great. So Pastor Tom Helmut here as pastor of care and education, two weeks into the role coming in, and said things started third week coming in. This is week three. This is week three. And so, so it's been great, and we're going to get into today to talk about one the message series, which is called Mountain mover, and it's really an identity of talking about, how do we learn to trust God when the path is unclear? And I think all of us can admit that the path and our life has been unclear at times. I would love to say that my role to becoming a pastor was super clear. And I just took every single step into becoming that. And I can go back into 567, 10 times in my life when I was like, Oh no, I was going to be an architect. At one point, I wanted to go into the military, and I was going to be a lifelong career military person. So that was a route. Came back and sold cars for a moment. That was not a route. Just in case anyone was wondering, I did not want to do that. So, like all along these ways, I worked in construction for two years prior to seminary. So I was I was going up and doing that so and all along these points, I mean different relationships, different careers, right, different paths and learning to trust God again and again and again. But I can say the times when I found the path was when I went back to God. That's the times when I found the path. And so this series is really learning about to trust God, aligning those paths again and again and again and again. And so we've been walking through we met with our youth that went to on mission, and because their path is developing, right? So we talked with them. Week One, we talked about you of little faith, which Christ often said to the disciples, right? That was week two in the series, and this last week, we really talked about the word Trust. And we talked about, what does it mean to trust God? And we define trust as the really the ability to see a character or trait in someone that gives you an assured confidence that you are willing to allow them to really control a part of your life, right to have something that could affect your life, you're giving them control over that because you trust them. You have confidence in an assured confidence of them. And maybe it's not the whole part trust kind of you can compartmentalize it. They can just be one trait that you trust. It can be a piece of their character that you trust. I think as we talk about God, we're talking about holistic trust, right, and what that really means. So wanted to jump in and really talk through this, but we can't jump in without doing our jingle. And so you guys ready a, one, a, two, it's only me today. It's going to be a moment, I know. So you guys ready for this? 479-367-2285, neighborhood neighborhood, church. Yeah, there. You appreciate that, you guys on point. And so again, I like to say harmony, but no, yeah, no, that was definitely not a harmony, but at the same time it was beautiful. It was, it was beautiful music to my ears. And that is, that is a jingle rose. And what happens when they call the jingle?

Unknown: 4:00

I answer the phone. That's exactly

Pastor Joe Liles: 4:03

right. What is your go to line when you answer the phone?

Roseann Bowlin: 4:06

Thank you for calling the neighborhood church. This is Roseanne. How can I help you today? I just

Pastor Joe Liles: 4:10

want to call her to talk. Doesn't it seem like a person you just

Tom Helmich: 4:13

want to make a friend with us, hoping she's going to say, you know, this is Roseanne, the hostess with

Roseann Bowlin: 4:19

the most Oh, but that works too. More

Pastor Joe Liles: 4:21

professional. Oh yeah, hostess with the most is okay, I don't mind that. Yeah, that's nice. That could be great. So one that is our jingle. That is our phone number at the church. You can call that anytime we can talk to Roseanne. But let's jump into a little bit about trusting God. And so the first question I wanted to kind of get to is that, what does it mean for each of you to trust God. So we broke this down in the message a little bit. I talked through it, but before we kind of break down the message points. And now that we have the definition of trust, what does it mean for each of you to trust God? I

Tom Helmich: 4:52

think there's a difference between believing in God and trusting God, because you can believe God exists, but not trust God's. Character or trust God's, God's plan, and want to rebel against that, you know, to try to have our own plan. And so I think part of trusting God is being willing to to at least know that we need to submit to God's will, like I got my own plan for things. It doesn't usually work out that way. But instead of that being the whole world and everything is broken. It's It's knowing that, okay, I tried this, but you know God's will is something different, and knowing that no acknowledging who's really in control of what's going on.

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:32

So you said four hard things in that statement. You said, one is that we have to believe in God. You started with that, right? And you have an understanding of God, and believing isn't necessarily trusting, yeah, because not trusting, that's a great distinction. We'll talk about that in a second. And then you said you have to acknowledge God, right? So not only believe but you have to acknowledge God, right? That God has control over our life and that you have to trust in God's Will over our life. Those are four, to me, unknowns in a trusting relationship with God, which

Tom Helmich: 5:59

completely contradictory to my my own will to have control of everything going on me and know what's going on, even through seminary. The hardest part is starting seminary, like I spent, I know, several months detailing, I mean, I talked to the lady at Wartburg, I don't know how many times like she recognized my voice when I called. She just knew who it was, right? Because I want everybody

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:19

knows your name,

Tom Helmich: 6:21

I know every little detail how this is going to work, but it got hard because certain steps along the way, even the advisors like, yeah, we'll figure it out when we get there. Yeah. It's like, okay, how are we going to do this? Because this isn't going to work this way, and this is how the catalog says you have to do this. But I can't do that because I want to know before I got started, yeah, what the end game was going to be, yep, in our in our faith, trusting God is saying that. I have no idea what the end game is going to be, what the end result is going to be, but I know it's going to be, you know, it's going to be God's will, whatever it is. And I know that that's where it needs to be. And just be willing to submit to going, going along with that. You know, it's like saying, hey, jump in the car. We're gonna go on a road trip where you'll find out when we get there, yeah, I'm not going to get in that car, yeah, but you'll get that car with God. Well, I don't really have a choice, because this is the other reality, is, if, if God's will is that I will buy free will, do whatever, then I'm going to do it by my own free will. Because there's a difference. We can't, we can't equate ourselves with God's authority, right? Well, that's what I was

Pastor Joe Liles: 7:18

going to ask, is, like, how do you know God's will? I mean, if this is a part of trusting God, and you're saying it'd be and you're

Tom Helmich: 7:23

singing so much easier, if we could, it'd be so much easier, yeah, but then we might be wanting to try to pick and choose which we were okay with, yeah, and because, I mean, a lot of problems in my life have been when I've rebelled against God's will,

Pastor Joe Liles: 7:36

you know? And would you say, rebelled against God's will, rebelled against

Tom Helmich: 7:40

God, against God's will. I mean, for me, I always like the idea of, you know, of being obedient to God, yeah, when it was what I wanted God to, want me to be obedient in but there's times that, you know, it's like that knock on the door. And if you knock on somebody's door and they ignore it, they start knocking louder and louder and louder. And you don't want God knocking on your door incredibly loud. Yeah, it just God will get our attention. And so I think being able to be willing to go into God's God's plan for you is great. The hard part is knowing what it is, yeah, and it took me, I don't know, 20 years to figure out about the seminary thing. Maybe it was like a time, but discerning God's will, that's the whole point of why you can't, like getting in a seminary, you don't just say, Well, I feel called, okay, let's discern that a little bit. And it's a process they go through to try to figure out if, if this is really what it is. Because we don't, we don't know, and there's not a signature line on, you know, God's messages to us always. So we don't, we don't know. That takes a lot of prayer and discernment and people around you to discern if that's really what it is and not something else. This is

Pastor Joe Liles: 8:45

why trust is so hard to me. Is because you said we don't know. But the first thing you said is, we needed to believe in God, which is knowledge of God. It's our understanding of that. And then you said, we don't know, right? And so it's, it's trust is this highly contradictory. It's

Tom Helmich: 8:58

like, it's where most Christians fail, like they'll believe in God, yeah. But so often we want our will to be done rather than trusting God's will. And and there's, that's, that's part of the, part of the breakdown, you know, with, you know, I know God exists, I know God's in control, but I'm, I'm dead set on doing it this way. This is the way I think it needs to be my will, my will be done instead of Thy will be done. So

Pastor Joe Liles: 9:21

I want to get back to this idea of belief and faith, right? Because I think people interchange belief, faith and trust, right? And they are not interchangeable, right? They are very distinct. And I think we need to help people understand the distinction between belief, faith and trust. And I made that distinction in the message, and I tried to make it clear, it's hard, because I could do a whole series on belief in faith, right? And do four weeks on just what is faith, four weeks on what is belief, four weeks on what is trust, and how that works out. So let's come back to belief in faith and trust. But Roseanne, I want to hear from you like, what is it that that you believe? Mean? Is to

Roseann Bowlin: 10:00

trust God. Well, I wanted to add to something that, I guess it's maybe the age difference, but I know what the end is. The end result is said, age difference. What do you mean? Age difference? You guys? Okay, great. I know at the end, I'm super

Pastor Joe Liles: 10:14

old. I'm not even there yet.

Roseann Bowlin: 10:18

Let's just put it out there. I'm the oldest one here, but the end result of my trust in God is eternity with Him. Yeah, right. So, so I know that as I make decisions, as I discern God's will for my life, I put my trust in Him, in all the chaos, in all the doubt, in all the anxiety in the situation I put I have peace knowing that God's plan is way better than mine. You know, it's and it's hard sometimes, because it's not the plan I wanted,

Pastor Joe Liles: 11:01

right? I think it's very important. It's actually the distinction I made in my message, right, between prayers a plan, right in the promise. And I just said, you know, when we say we trust God, and I think this is where we get stuck. We get stuck in belief acknowledgement. We can start in God's will. We can second, understand, like all these different places that we can get stuck in trying to trust God, but the trust is not in God's every action, right? The trust is in the promise. The trust is in the kingdom, right? And what you said is, hey, I trust that there's an eternity waiting for me, like, if you want to let me know how I get through everything in my life. And I said this on Sunday too. I said, Look, there's been enough things that happened in my life. And the only reason I stay a pastor, and this is a true statement. The only reason I stay pastor is because the promise is true, and if the promise is true, then I will keep on working for the rest of my life to serve the kingdom because I believe in the promise. It doesn't mean I'm going to do everything right. It doesn't mean people around me are going to do everything right. It doesn't mean that my life is perfect and that nothing goes wrong right. What it means is that the promise is greater than every single circumstance that I go through, and I can lean back into that promise at all times. And so I love that you said that, because I think that really encapsulate what's trusting God is. It's trust in the promise, right? Knowing and having knowledge that there is a plan. I don't know what the plan is. I'm not included into the plan all the time. At times, I just breathe by the Holy Spirit. Now my Holy Spirit seems like you're doing something there. Cool. Imma keep on walking my direction, you know, like I'm going to keep on walking over here and I just breeze by it. And so there's a really great reality about trusting in the promise and what that means too. So I love that. I thought that was really good. Now, walk me through Roseanne, when is a time that, when is the time in your life that you specifically trusted God, you know? So a time in your life that we're thinking about, maybe a moment that trusting God was challenging to you

Roseann Bowlin: 12:47

on April 10, 2017 I woke up an ordinary day. Mm hmm, got ready for work, and I got the phone call, that my husband had been in an accident on April 29 I walked into the hospital a wife and walked out a widow. Yeah. It so the future I thought I was going to have on April 10, shattered the future I thought I was going to have on April 29 shattered. Yeah, I didn't know what my future looked like, and that was extremely hard to trust in because, and I still, I still deal with it, because growing old with this person wasn't going to happen, right? And so just trusting that God's got me sometimes be hard. Yeah? Oh man, yeah. Go ahead and there are more challenges that I mean, both my sisters are living with me now. Both would be homeless if they weren't in my home, right? So there are challenges there. Now, do I trust that it's God's plan? Yes. Do I trust that God's got me Yes? Is it hard? Absolutely yes.

Pastor Joe Liles: 14:21

Would you say that you maintained your trust the entire time through those challenging circumstances?

Roseann Bowlin: 14:31

No, I tried, but there were times when it looked really bleak. I mean, you know, I yeah, I'd like to say, Oh yes, I had trust all the way through, but no, it waned.

Pastor Joe Liles: 14:51

Yeah. Can I ask you one more, a little bit harder question, yeah, what brought you back into trust? Having. Uh, such a life change twice, right? They April 10 and the 29th so kind of this dramatic shift in life, little bit of a recovery, and then, you know, kind of the final notice that we're going to be gathered together again, right? Hope in the future, right?

Roseann Bowlin: 15:14

Right? I think that, um, prayer. Yeah, that Okay, God, you're walking with me. You are beside me. Yeah, you're not carrying me. I can do this, but you're walking beside me and knowing that I had friends who represented God walking with me, yeah, because we have to be God's hands and feet on Earth, and that's what he calls us to do. And so the friends that surrounded me, the just the way looking back, the way God answered prayer, even though it wasn't my plan originally, that was not what I planned, I accept God's plan for my life and path. And so there's not one particular moment when I went, Okay, I've got this. God's got this. It's just that blessed assurance. Mm,

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:15

hmm. I love that statement, Blessed assurance, because it's an assured hope, absolutely. And I think when, at least in my life, when I have gotten this places where it's hard to trust God, right, I can only live into an assured hope, right? It can only live into the hope of the promise to be true, right? And this is what I'm moving forward towards, and it carries me through the tough times when it's dark and it's bleak and I don't know what's going to happen and and anything that I know, that I put out there is my will, will not accomplish anything more to change the situation that I'm in. The situation has changed. I recognize that. How do I trust God again? I cannot go back to the way that it was, right. Specifically, even in the situation you're talking about losing a husband, a beloved spouse, right? I cannot go back to the way that it was, yep. So what does it mean to walk forward, right? And the only thing we can do is hope into the next step and trust that. And I think, too, our trust breaks down all the way to a space where, like, we just trust that God is present. I don't need the plan, I don't need the prayers, I don't need thing. I just purely need to know that God is present with me, because everything else is too much. It's too much. So, like you said, God walking with you, I think is that beginning step back into a trusting relationship when our situations are really challenging. So, and we'll continue to pray for you too well. Thank you. Yeah. Love David. He was he was a saint. To that guy. Was awesome. Yeah? Pretty good guy. Yeah, he was absolutely Tom What about you? Yeah,

Tom Helmich: 17:50

and thinking about the the trust thing, it's like, really, it's not necessarily, and I would think maybe it's not necessarily a lack of trust in God, but a lack of trust in what the consequences are going to be on Earth, like what the details of God's plan are for us on Earth, you know, because, like, when do you experience death? It's this separation from the loved one. We know God still exists in that. We know that you know, For God so loved the earth that sent his only son. And we know these things, but the consequences for us on Earth are being separated from those people. So really, like some of our lack of trust is trust in the details of what God's plan is going to look like for us on Earth as we experience it, because our I mean, only thing we have any kind of ability to to understand or comprehend is the things that we can physically touch around us and see around us and see around us in our life. You know, where we're going to live, what our job is going to be if we're gonna have enough money. Yeah, you know, tangible things. These are the tangible things in our life. And some of the times where I think we feel distrust, and we feel distrust for what those tangible things are or are not going to be, rather than, you know, the trust in the end. You know, like when, when my grandfather died and when my grandmother died, like the trust of the end, I knew, you know, I knew that end, well, the trust was going to be in the end of the being gathered together with the saints in the light and the the final, end of times and the resurrection. But it's the stuff in between, yeah, that we're going to experience in life that brings fear, you know, like and for me as a parent, and you're getting into this phase a little bit with your kids, the very difficult, harsh reality that God has given my children, the exact same free will that he's given me both have, yeah, and I no longer have any control over the choices they make. And a lot of times, I'm more emotionally invested in the potential consequences of their choices than they are, because I've got, you know, my youngest doesn't have he lacks the part of his brain yet to be able to comprehend consequences. I love these. That's great. He'd be about another six, seven years before he gets there. Right? Absolutely. And so it's like a roller coaster you didn't sign up for. And so I know that God has a plan for my children. You. What my children's choices are going to be along the way, with their consequences that they're going to suffer from their choices, and the consequences that that Amy and I are going to suffer from their choices, yeah, we don't know. And so it's like the lack of the areas where my truck, my trust, uh, fails a little bit, or Wayne's is in the things in between now and the in the end, yeah, and it's, it's the time, it's, it's tough to trust God, because I have my own idea of what I want my kids lives to be and the choices I want them to make and and they don't always choose that. And I didn't look back at me as a parent, you know, like me as me as a kid. I'm like, I didn't always make those choices either. Yeah, right, yeah. But I have to have that trust that God has a plan for my children and that and that Christ's, you know, action on the cross was for my children also. So I don't fear that, really, I'm fearing their consequences on

Roseann Bowlin: 20:53

Earth, yeah, for their choices. You don't want to see your children go through pain, no? And

Tom Helmich: 20:58

I don't want them to have to do stuff the hard way, right? Despite my best efforts. Oh, I know it's like my

Roseann Bowlin: 21:02

daughter did. Yeah, it was an obstacle to put in her way. She threw it up

Tom Helmich: 21:07

there. Oh, yeah, my kids, I think, go off their rails sometimes looking for them, you know, but they come back around. You know? It's just those tough times of life where I have to entirely, just completely trust God in my children's lives, which is a difficult thing for me to let go of when they were little. I could pick them up, put them in their car seat, buckle them in. Now, I mean, Connor's at home with us for another couple weeks, and then he moves to, you know, to Conway, yeah. And then they're all just on their own, doing their own thing, and until there's an issue and they need to call mom and dad for help on stuff, you know, but we're not there to see the choices they're making, or who they're hanging out with, or, you know, who you know choices they're not making, and we just have to trust them and trust God that that God's got a plan for them, yeah, and just know that there's going to be consequences, and there's nothing I can, I can do about that. So it's tougher, like the toughest moments for me and trusting God right now is with with the kids,

Pastor Joe Liles: 22:03

yeah, right now, I think it's very interesting. The point you bring up about trusting God is trusting God in other people's lives too. I had actually not even conceptualized this identity, like I know it, have knowledge of it, did not think about it when I was crafting this message, that I was thinking very personal. And that's part of my message, was that the first part was that if you want to begin to trust God, you have to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. There's no other way to begin trusting God and try you in God outside of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. So it was a very personal identity of a message. But I think you were 100% right when you say that if we are to trust God, we trust God in wholeness, which means that we have to look at other people who are Christian in our lives, and our kids, especially that we are raising a Christian in faith in life as a responsibility and discipleship, to look at them and say, whoo. You're making some choices, but God is with you too. You know, like God has a will for your life and a plan for your life, and is in those midst. And I think our heart breaks, and it's gotta be true with God also, when they do something and we're like, we told you, like, we literally sat you down and said, Don't go down this path, because it could end up like this. And they're like, they're like,

Tom Helmich: 23:09

nope, one of those hard conversations just the other day, like, oh, well, this is your choice, but this is a very bad idea, and here's why, yeah, and it's your consequences, and I can't save you from that, yeah, man, all we can really do is just pray

Pastor Joe Liles: 23:24

for him, yeah, right? And I think it's important and understand that God is still with them, right? But then also, I think we have an action as disciple makers to continue to pour into their life, right? We don't stop pouring in because they've made a bad choice, right? And I think this is a beautiful nature of how we trust God. God pours into us still, when we make a bad choice, God's like, ooh, not the path ahead, you know. Like, that's okay. We're gonna work with it, you know. We're gonna work with it, and we'll move these things. And I think we do the same thing with our children, same thing with our friends. When we see someone that goes off the rails a little bit, it's not that we back away and go, ooh, distance. Can't have that right now. No, it's most are like, we step in and we say, hey, saw you. Went that direct. Like, still here, still willing to walk with you. Hey, let's, let's try to bring it back this direction a little bit. And I think it's an important narrative to see that in trusting God, we trust that God is in other people's lives also. And that goes back to last week's message, not this, just last Sunday, but last week, when we said that we really have to understand that if seeds are being planted, and it's a small amount of faith that, yes, you're planting seeds in others, and God's planting seeds in you, but there's other people planting seeds in you. Like, God's working in other people's lives to be in ours too, where people are watching us and going, ooh, wouldn't have you do that? Like, that's not the route right where we go. So I think it's a really profound point that we bring forward. So let's open up scripture. Let's go open up scripture and take through the we read three different readings on Sunday from Psalms and Proverbs, and we wanted to take this through and they're truly about what it means to trust God. So Roseanne, could you start with this by reading your

Roseann Bowlin: 24:50

scripture, Psalm 62, eight, yeah. Okay, trust in him at all times. Oh, people pour out your heart before Him. God is. Refuge for us, Selah. Mm,

Pastor Joe Liles: 25:02

it's beautiful. And then Psalm 56 just a couple chapters back, verses, verses five and six, and it says this, oh, sorry, verses three and four. And it says this, When I'm afraid I put my trust in you, in God, whose word I praise. In God, I trust I am not afraid. What can flesh do to me?

Tom Helmich: 25:27

And Proverbs, chapter three, verses five and six, trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not rely on your own insight in all your ways. Acknowledge Him and He will make straight your paths.

Pastor Joe Liles: 25:42

Proverbs that hits, well, I mean this, it sure does.

Tom Helmich: 25:45

Well, this is Proverbs five and six here. I mean this. This is the commandment in Deuteronomy, yeah, the Lord your God with all your heart, soul strength and might, yeah. And this is when, you know, Jesus is asked the was the first and greatest commandment. And he said, Love the Lord your God with all your God, with all your heart, soul, strength and mind, you know. And another one is like it, but that's what it's been. Proverbs are saying that trust in the Lord with all your heart, and I think that trust and love are are intrinsically tied. We can trust God because God loves us, yeah, and that's what allows that, that trust to be there. Well, I

Pastor Joe Liles: 26:18

think the important part in Proverbs too, like, lean, not on your own understanding, oh, yeah, not on your own insight, as it said. But that word is also understanding, and understanding is also belief, right? So it says, lean, not on your own belief, trust in God, right? Like, how interesting is that like? Because

Tom Helmich: 26:32

then when you look at Faith, faith is like, there's a there's a point between trust and knowledge, Yeah, correct? That faith kind of kind of bridges you, I think of knowledge of like an intellectual thing, and we're not, you know, we're not saved because of a right knowledge of God or the or the scriptures. Like, there are maybe plenty of people in heaven that had it completely wrong. Yeah, probably all of us, to some extent right. But that trust in God comes through faith, or maybe faith comes through trust. Those are kind of, kind of tied to each

Pastor Joe Liles: 27:02

other. Yeah, it was so that belief is exactly right, is and understand, it's a knowledge, it's an understanding of God, right? People can believe in God without having faith in God,

Tom Helmich: 27:11

right? And that's the big problem when people, like people, talk about, like the, you know, if God, if, if faith is a free gift given to people, and then how, how can anybody not be saved? Well, you can, you can believe that God exists, but then turn your back on God and say, No, I'm not going to do that and rebel against that. That's that rebellion against the Holy Spirit

Pastor Joe Liles: 27:32

that, I mean, they'll quote Scripture too, that even the demons believe in God, right? Like, that's what, yeah,

Tom Helmich: 27:36

that's what. That's what the devil used to attempt Jesus was with scripture. Yeah, right. You know that's the knowledge. Knowledge doesn't get you there, right? You know, you can have the entire Bible memorized, but if you, if you've not, if you don't have that gift of faith, and you're not turning into that, if you, I don't think turning into it's right, because it puts too much of an impetus on on us, like there's any turning into faith. But if you've been given that gift of faith, and you intentionally turn away from it because it doesn't fit your idea of what you want for your life. Then, then you obviously don't have any trust in God, or you're refusing to trust, right? So having that, that knowledge isn't enough. You have to that faith has to bridge that gap to trust,

Pastor Joe Liles: 28:14

right? And trust is really an identity of like, an actionable faith, like, when you trust in God, you're you're kind of putting faith into action, right? You're saying, great, I've been given this gift of my trust in God. Says, Now I I fully give my life over and surrender, right? A relational surrender to God, right? I just have faith that you've given me, and I just operate however. Yeah, I have a relational surrender. Now, if

Tom Helmich: 28:35

you got that one friend that where I teach, teaching teenagers to drive, right? We have the knowledge that, that maybe they've gone to the driving school, they've got the permit, and we may have faith in what their desired outcome, you know, what they're wanting to try to do. But do you really trust them behind the wheel entirely?

Pastor Joe Liles: 28:52

Tom I did not realize how scared I was in teaching my daughter how to drive until the first time I got in so confident, and I was like, this is going to go great, right? And now, mind you, I'm driving myself right now trusting another driver. That's that's a moment. Oh, yeah, even in your marriage, dear spouse, like trusting another drivers, the whole moment, Jess has entered in a new phase right now where she doesn't necessarily trust my driving. Like the other day, we're sitting there, she's like, you're close to the right line. And I'm like, Oh, interesting. And that's like, what's going on right now? And she goes, Oh, you need to stop. Quicker, you know? And I was like, What? What? Like, we've been driving together for 20 years. Like, what is happening that doesn't get better. No, it doesn't. I'm like, where are you at right now? Yeah. So, I mean, when

Tom Helmich: 29:33

I was I was a field training officer, teaching new police officers, you know. So they you go through the academy, and then you have field training, like, three, three or four months of field training, and you ride with a more experienced cop and like that. Would take them with me that ride in the passenger seat for the first four weeks, yeah, and they would just watch, and they'd follow along everything, and they'd start gradually doing more and more and more. In phase two, they drove, Oh, nice. And that's when you had, that's when you eliminated the people that decided they didn't really want to be FTOs. Oh, interesting. Because when you got a 21 year. Kid who's who's, you know, at that time, most of them have been had a license for five years. Now, a lot of them have only had a license for two or three years. Yeah, because people don't want to drive as often. And now you're in busy traffic, and now you get some kind of a hot call that requires a code through response, and they turn on the lights and sirens and start passing on the left to go through intersections, and that's a level of blood pressure change that I can't really think how I even articulate, yeah, like, there, there were, like, rub marks in the floorboard where I'm like, just cramming that, that, that non existent pad down there, up underneath the dash. Yeah, I don't have any freaking terrifying

Pastor Joe Liles: 30:37

Oh, yeah, no, I can't even imagine. I'm with Kaylee driving normal speeds on back roads. Oh, and I'm like, This is scary, and it's not going wrong. I just lack control. Well,

Tom Helmich: 30:49

right? And that because we don't lack control, right? It's hard to it's hard to trust we don't have control, right? Like, I had no fear of driving 100 miles on the interstate if I had 200 miles an hour running code three to like an officer needs assistance call or something, riding in the passenger seat with somebody else doing it whole another ball game. Yeah, even if it's with a more seasoned officer, there's a little bit of level of anxiety, because we often want to only trust our own, Oh, absolutely, our own decision making. But being a passenger in the car with somebody else, that's when you know whether or not you you may believe that they're a good driver, and you may have faith in what they want out of that, and that they're going to be attentive, but do you really trust them behind the wheel? And that's the thing with with because reality is, God's behind the wheel. We're not, yeah, and when we get past pretend Jesus, right? And just the knowledge, we're kind of along for the ride. It's tough to trust. It's tough to trust, you know,

Pastor Joe Liles: 31:44

I think there's something here about the pace of life, right? And you spoke about how quick this was from 10th to 29th earlier, right? Like this, 19 days, right? And you just spoke about the pace like, hey, I can get in and drive with it, you know, the second phase officer, right? And we're driving, that's fine. Soon as you hit the code three, the lights are on, right, and you're zooming through intersections, there's there's pace and presence, right? Like now, all of a sudden, these decisions are being made with other people who can be impacted. Now I trust you less. The decision is made at a speed which I'm comfortable with, but not comfortable with you. And there's a speed thing, right? So now here's another level of trust. It's almost as if the way that we trust not only is it not out of our control, if it's not in our timeline, right or not around the people that we also do like those, all have factors in our trust. And so when we say holistic trust, we're saying, God, I trust you and with the people in my life. I trust you with the pace of my life. I trust you with the plan for my life. And then God, in a really interesting way, says eternity. And if I'm just drawing this connection now, during the podcast, answers those questions, God says, Hey, you don't have to worry about time I got you for eternity. God says you don't have to worry about people, because we'll all be gathered together again. You know, you don't have to worry about the plane because I had the promise. It's almost like all the questions where we have levels of trust get answered in the game,

Tom Helmich: 32:59

and I think that's in looking at the Lord's Prayer. You know when Jesus said pray in this way, and part of that is thy kingdom come? Thy will be done?

Roseann Bowlin: 33:08

Yeah, I always emphasize that word when I say,

Tom Helmich: 33:11

I do too. I can't Thy will be done,

Pastor Joe Liles: 33:13

because you guys are old school. You just like the word thy

Roseann Bowlin: 33:15

Yeah, it's true.

Tom Helmich: 33:17

Guilty, guilty. A little bit of poetic nature too. But that's he's telling us to pray for God's will. And I think that's when you're doing like pastoral care, you're praying with somebody. You know, I always try to include that, that to give us peace with God's will. Yeah? Because, you know, prayer is not a magic spell, that we can just pray for something and that's going to happen, yeah? Because part of what Jesus taught us in the Lord's Prayer is, is not just how to pray, but what to pray for. Yeah, because we pray that for the wrong thing, that mean we're going to we're going to get it. It's not a like a magic wand or magic spell to control God's will. He's teaching us to try to pray for God's will to be done in our life. And I think with that comes some acceptance of God's will and a greater degree of trust

Roseann Bowlin: 33:56

and trust, yes, yeah. And he says, In all your ways, acknowledge him. So glorify God in all that you do.

Pastor Joe Liles: 34:04

Mm, hmm, yeah. What ways can we move the congregation, like the church now, from like a believing moment, understanding, right, having knowledge of God, into trusting God. How do we move the whole congregation in that way,

Tom Helmich: 34:19

man, as it takes time in this relationship. Yeah, right, you know, I mean, because they've got to be able to see those little moments in other people's lives, to be able to recognize them in their own lives. Yeah, and move what I think part is what they what people look for in their faith, yeah, if you're looking for something that you're not going to get, it's hard to move to that point of trust. You know, it's because that's why Jesus, you know, we can pray for everything, but he taught us to pray for for certain things and to things, and to to help people understand, you know, what the fruits of the Spirit are and what the outcome of faith is. That it's not, you know, it's helping people steer away from the tendency towards, like prosperity gospel, you know, to God's kingdom. Yeah, gospel. And you know, us present in God's kingdom. Kingdom gospel, because it if they, if their faith is is pursuing something that is not a promise of the gospel, then they're going to feel that that's not being fulfilled, and they're not going to build that trust. Yeah, you know, so it's been an honesty of of what it is and what it is and what it isn't, and what God's desire and will for us in our lives is, and helping them to discern those things and to build tell the difference for for the wants that they have desires, yeah, their own wants and desires that they may be praying for and may or may not get with God's will for their life, because it's not the same thing, like, it's not going to be God's will for anybody's life for them to get a, you know, a new sports car, or this or that. It may happen as an aside, but if that's those, are the things they're praying for. It's helping them to get a deeper relationship and praying for things that are, you know, more closely tied to God's will. Yeah, not just, you know, a luxury

Pastor Joe Liles: 35:57

on Earth. Yeah, absolutely.

Roseann Bowlin: 36:01

I think that God is the most worthy of trust, right?

Tom Helmich: 36:07

Probably the only one worthy of complete trust.

Roseann Bowlin: 36:09

So I think for us to help the congregation move, wait,

Pastor Joe Liles: 36:13

hold on a second. That's I wanted to stop on that statement. I really like it. I want, I want us to think about it for a second. Repeat it one more

Roseann Bowlin: 36:24

time. God is the most worthy of trust.

Pastor Joe Liles: 36:31

So I was processing that. As Tom said, the only one worthy of our trust, the only one worthy of complete trust, of complete trust. And watch this moment, I disagree with you. Tom, and I was thinking, it's a really powerful statement, Roseanne, and that, you know that God is the only you know, God is only one worthy of our trust, right? Like the statement that really it's it's true God, God is faithful. I said that my message on Sunday, God is faithful. Like, if we want to understand that God is faithful. That means God is faithful to us. You know, like it. It's this reciprocal relationship where we think that our faith only responds to God, but God is faithful, which means that God is faithful to the promise, to the trust, to the being with us, to sending Jesus Christ. Like over and over again, we see this and then. But part of one of the things I said in my message on Sunday Tom was that when we're thinking about, who do we trust? That the world would look differently if the way we trusted people was the way we trusted God. Right now, the world is broken and sinful, which means that this is a result, but I think, like, it would be incredible, and maybe this is the heavens opened hope is that it that God isn't the only one worthy of our complete trust. Like, yes, we trust God. And because we trust God, we extend that complete trust to everyone around us right now. Get it every time someone denies that trust, betrays that trust, we take it back, and then we put up a wall that takes to complete trust right, every part every time in our life. But I look at like my spouse, Jess, and I look at my kids, right, and I think I have complete trust right now. Mind you, there's been doubts and there's been things like that, right? So that's hard, because I have walls there. But man, shouldn't we be able to completely trust people in our life and understand that? And I think the answer is sadly no, because we're broken and sinful and at the same time, faithful and hopeful. But gosh, I really would hope that God's not the only one we can completely

Roseann Bowlin: 38:24

trust. Okay, so to finish my statement,

Pastor Joe Liles: 38:28

yeah, like, sorry I interrupted. It was such a good statement I had interrupted in the middle, um,

Roseann Bowlin: 38:33

so I'm going to butcher this saying. But there's a saying out there that said be the Bible for people, and sometimes use words Yes, right? So to bring people in our congregation from simply believing yeah to absolutely trusting. We have to be trust worthy. Yeah? That means we have to met match our worthiness of trust. Yeah, to God's

Pastor Joe Liles: 39:12

yep, that's beautiful. I believe that 100% and I believe it's one of the hardest things that

Roseann Bowlin: 39:18

it is very hard, yeah, because we're human, that's right, and we fail. And I think that people who are believers but not trusters can sometimes be judging, judgingtons. Oh,

Pastor Joe Liles: 39:34

okay, great. And

Roseann Bowlin: 39:37

are very, oh, that is a church a hypocrite, yeah, well, no, we just all need healing.

Pastor Joe Liles: 39:46

But that's great. I agree with you entirely, right? The church is not a place for perfect people, right? It's for people, place for people who acknowledge that we're on a path that's healing, a path that's growing, a path that's deepening, um. That's the acknowledgement of being a church body, right? There are not perfect people in this church, right? Nor in any

Roseann Bowlin: 40:04

church. It's really a hospital for broken

Pastor Joe Liles: 40:06

souls. You know, a lot of it's there, right? But yeah, in the hospital, it sends people back out. Thank you for being here with us. You go back out into the world, right? We hope that we filled you. It's great. And so, yeah, I think there's a really, really incredible reality as we think through that. So, you know, I wanted to bring this up. I love that you have notes from Sunday, because you get to sit in a church and listen. And that is a segment that we have here on the podcast. Tommy, ready? You have to sing the segment with me. It's Roseanne notes. That's how it goes. You guys ready? Okay, and the segment is called Rose Tom. You have to go with me. This is a very important ready? Roseanne, no notes. Oh, man, so

Roseann Bowlin: 40:45

further on that you have to be trustworthy. Say what you mean, mean what you say, even when it is unpopular and yet it is Biblically sound. Ooh, that's good, and sometimes that's hard. Yeah, trusting God breaks us and makes us truly new to him. He breaks us from our pride, our ego, our selfishness. And the Bible sums it up in a positive way with the Beatitudes, which is Matthew five, three through 12, and in First Corinthians, 13, four through seven. So when you look at First Corinthians 13, four through seven, and you can put your name in the place of love, if you can replace your name of love, and really, truly mean it, that's our trust in God.

Pastor Joe Liles: 41:40

That's great. Yeah, I love that. And to take it back to the Beatitudes, this is wonderful also, I mean, to think, but I think this is the hardest part about trust. It's a full and complete relationship with God,

Tom Helmich: 41:53

and that's also the thing with with trust, and that who we put our full and complete trust in, yeah? Because any person will eventually break your trust to some degree. They'll disappoint they'll disappoint you, right? I will, like, if people have known me long enough, I'm going to do things to disappoint them. You know, there's what we consider trustworthy in a human nature, but we know there's a there's a point that every human being is going to have a moment where they're going to disappoint somebody else or or break trust to some degree. Because of this, the sinfulness there makes all of humanity we you know, any the most trustworthy person can get to like maybe 99% but not 100% trustworthy, because sin is present in there, whereas God being without sin. That's why I say is the one that is the only one worthy of complete and total trust, because of the the absence of that selfishness and of that sin, we can trust in God in all things, and we can trust God entirely. We don't necessarily mean we're going to get all the consequences we want, but if we put our faith and part of that, that trust and faith relationship, yeah, in other human beings, like people's brokenness with the church, you know, people's disappointment with because they put their faith in the church instead of in God, a person, a person and a pastor, the pair of people in the church, the church will disappoint and and will fail, but where God won't, you know. So you can get to that a high level of trust with people, like we'd have with our spouse, but we, even if you put all your faith and trust in your spouse, there's going to be times when you're, you know, there'll be a break there, yeah, you know, because selfishness exists in all people, but, but not in God. We put that total faith and trust in God, and look, you know, for that from God alone, I think kind of helps, help set that stage for starting to be able to have that right relationship.

Pastor Joe Liles: 43:50

You know, I wonder if in trusting, in having a full and complete trust, heart, body, mind and soul with God, that we get to a place where we are truly not putting ourselves in a trusting relationship to the people around us, but we are constantly re putting ourselves in a trusting relationship with God, into a relational surrender that says, hey, I believe that you're moving in the lives of people around me too. So my trust is extended to the people, because I have trust in

Tom Helmich: 44:14

you, right? And that's why I think to have that full trust in God makes it easier to have a higher level of trust with each other, yeah, right. And I think that's the reason why that's, you know, Jesus, that's the first and the greatest commandment, you know, and the other ones like it, to love your neighbor as yourself. If you're going to be able to love somebody else, we have to be able to love and trust God, yeah, you know. And give, give God our full, you know, our full commitment, full love with all of our heart, soul, strength and mind, or the best as we can as fallen, sinful creatures, and in that we are empowered to be able to love somebody else,

Roseann Bowlin: 44:47

right, right? So a couple more thoughts, trust. You have to have courage to have trust. Yeah, agree. Courage is not the absence of. Fear, it is facing what God puts in your life with trust in him that his will, his plan, will be fulfilled even through your fear. Mm, yes, and your feel fear will diminish as you trust God more deeply.

Pastor Joe Liles: 45:14

Mm, hmm, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was that psalm text that we read in 62 right? Or 56 right? It says, I will not fear because I have trust in God, and I trust the word, right?

Roseann Bowlin: 45:23

And then God is a refuge. So the definition of a refuge is a condition of being safe or sheltered from pursuit, danger or trouble. I can't think of a better refuge than God Almighty.

Pastor Joe Liles: 45:36

Mm, hmm, but let's reiterate it. You named where the refuge is that earlier, it's in the kingdom and eternity, amen, yep, I think we constantly look for that refuge daily, right? And we're saying, bring the kingdom now, which is the right statement, faithfully. But what we're really saying is that I have an assured hope in the kingdom, right? And because of that, I trust you, God. And without that trust in the assured kingdom, there's no reason for us to go on sometimes,

Tom Helmich: 46:00

without that, that hope, without having that, that promise, I don't know how you go through life, right? I don't need it, right? This is just

Roseann Bowlin: 46:08

it, like, knowing the Christmas present you're gonna get and you want it

Pastor Joe Liles: 46:13

now, yeah, but you know you have to wait, but you gotta, but you gotta wait, right? And it's wrapped and under the tree, and you can see it, and you're like, This is not right. Like, I just want to wait. That's great. That's great. So I mean, this is all about relationship with God, and I think that's why I love this series, is because we're really talking about adult discipleship in this mountain mover series. What does it mean to continue to be a disciple as an adult? And we're going to continue that next week in a unique way, and we're going to talk about, really, what we call, kind of a lights out in the summer camp style of discipleship, but it was really that end of day conversation, like, it's not a Sunday only faith, it is an everyday faith. And how do you come back into relationship with God with every day? So we're going to actually give kind of the tips, tools, techniques that you should use every day to go back into relationship with God throughout every single moment, not just on Sunday. Don't just come here on Sunday to get filled up. You should go out and actualize this right back on the community. And I told people this week, I said, go out and ask the people that you trust, you know. I said, you know. I said, here's why I trust you. Here's when I started trusting you. And then I said, ask him a third hard question, do you trust me, right? And get the real honest answer, because that's going to give a great honest answer of how we trust God. Now let's lean into getting to God daily, right? So we can continue to build those relationships. So that's the mountain mover series, um talking through the message, right? We'll be back here next week as we talk about how we lean into God daily, And all God's people said, Amen.