Just a little bit of faith goes a long way (Parable of the Mustard Seed)

Join Pastor Joe Liles and the team from Neighborhood Church as open up about the transformative power of faith, no matter how small. 

In this podcast, The Neighborhood Chuch Staff explores how even the tiniest seed of trust can move mountains in your life. Through personal stories, biblical insights, and raw, honest conversations, "Mountain Movers" reveals how ordinary people navigate life's challenges by embracing faith in extraordinary ways.

Whether you're struggling with doubt, facing seemingly insurmountable obstacles, or simply seeking to deepen your spiritual journey, this podcast will inspire you to see how small acts of faith can lead to remarkable transformations.
Hopefully, the stories you hear from the staff of The Neighborhood Church challenge you, comfort you, and motivate you as you learn to trust God's plan, even when the path seems unclear.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introductions
• 7:15 Coffee Talk and Personal Introductions
• 15:40 Personal Faith Journeys with small faith moments
• 25:50 Scripture Reading | Matthew 17:14-20
• 37:55 Discussing the power of prayer
• 45:21 The role of prayer in decision-making
• 52:20 Reflections on faith and spiritual growth

Transcript

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:00

Okay, all right. Welcome to the TNC podcast, recorded in studio at the worship center in the neighborhood Church, which we've converted into a podcast studio every single week. And what does that mean that we convert it into a podcast studio? I don't think people really have an identity of what it means that we convert this into a

Tom Helmich: 0:18

podcast studio. We move more furniture than a moving company.

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:21

This is very true. I do agree that Tom, what's your, what's your verbally, but, yeah, yeah, it's

Unknown: 0:27

absolutely,

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:29

it's not exactly well,

Tom Helmich: 0:33

but they never move. They don't move the same furniture. See,

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:36

Tom has a one touch rule. Have you heard of the One Touch rule? I love the one time you love doing that touch rule. I am not a one touch rule person, yeah, and

Tom Helmich: 0:43

easy and UN frustrating and all the things that are wonderful, yeah? But when you have a multi use space, unfortunately,

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:49

that requires, yeah, absolutely. It requires constant movement, which is tough on furniture. It's tough on furniture. We've lost some chairs over the time. Can we just pause for a moment for the chairs that we've lost? Okay, so that was good. So we bought some chairs. Yeah, we moved four chairs every single week. We put some tables over here. We grab some coffee we're enjoying. Bring the Scripture over. We got some pillows. Roseanne and I have some pillows, which is wonderful. Stuff off the stage to make it we move stuff off the stage in order to make space for it, and then we move it back afterwards. It's a wonderful process, and we get everything going. But we are here. We have four podcast host this morning, live in studio. And to my left is the wonderful Roseanne Bowen. Roseanne Bowen, and you're a role here at the neighborhood church, Director of operation, oh, for the neighborhood church and little neighbors, little neighbors, preschool. That's right, 5050, that's awesome. And then to my right, we have the newly ordained pastor. You

Tom Helmich: 1:38

notice he didn't say wonderful, like only Roseanne gets the wonderful lift that up.

Pastor Joe Liles: 1:43

Oh, I just understood a lot more about Pastor Tom. So Tom is a words of affirmation. Guy. I didn't know that. Now,

Tom Helmich: 1:49

you introduced me for me. Yeah, that's good, Tom,

Pastor Joe Liles: 1:53

Mr. Wonderful. Next to me is Mr. Wonderful. No. So yeah, and your role here at the neighborhood church, Pastor of care and education, beautiful, and you're two weeks fresh, yeah? Two weeks fresh, right? Just into the work, right? This is starting in and last week your work was getting your office set up. We typically don't have offices at the neighborhood church, yeah? But I'm like, I'm Gen X. I don't work that way. You don't work that way. I 100% know that this is very true.

Tom Helmich: 2:17

Putting an office together. I thought we pretty easy, but I didn't know is going to require climbing an

Pastor Joe Liles: 2:21

attic space. Yeah, that's because we had a small leak in your in your defined office

Tom Helmich: 2:24

space compensation issue. Uh huh, yeah, maybe I should have picked a different Yeah, you

Pastor Joe Liles: 2:28

went into it full. How are you feeling in your defined office now works when I get to be in there. Oh, that's great. Okay, that's really wonderful. Okay, great. I was even in there yesterday when you were here. I walked in there and I was like, Okay, great. I'll sit down for 10 minutes in here and get some work done. It was wonderful. So I thank you for making an you for making another

Tevo Christmann: 2:43

office in the neighborhood church. Wait. Other people are welcome to use your office when you're

Pastor Joe Liles: 2:47

not in there. Well, technically it's the prayer room, so we can't really say it's his office. It's actually the prayer room, but it's Tom's office during

Tom Helmich: 2:53

the week. Yeah, in there. And when I'm not in there, there's a desk. Yeah? Desk happened to be available? Is there?

Pastor Joe Liles: 3:00

Yeah, it sits. I'll let you guys work that out. It's great. No, it's great. And actually worked Wonderful. So it's good little bit. Another multi purpose just found me right away, though, can I say this out loud? Out in the I went in there Sunday morning, and I was just getting smart things done, great, everything else, and then Jess, and then Jess had appeared in the window, and I was like, How did you know? Because when the lights, yeah, it's like, how did you know, I've never been in here before, so it was great.

Tom Helmich: 3:23

People go in and sit down and turn the light off, then they walk right by. They don't think it was in there. Oh,

Pastor Joe Liles: 3:27

smart. Okay, that's great. Yeah, that's wonderful. And it's motion activated, so then you can't move. You

Tom Helmich: 3:33

can turn it off, I think, yeah, once you turn it off, it's just off. Yeah, that's, that's the secret. There

Pastor Joe Liles: 3:38

we go and to Tom's right. Tavo wonderful, Director of Music here at the neighborhood church, rocking, awesome. But also, we have about two weeks, about two weeks, and so there's a transition happening, right? So a couple podcasts left in the bank, yeah, that we got

Tom Helmich: 3:54

going on, like, the missing man formation, oh, we're

Pastor Joe Liles: 3:58

gonna, that's like a Yeah, I was gonna say, now I gotta say, you know, the poor one out right type of deal when you have one. So it's gonna be here, it's gonna be coffee. Yeah, that's what we'll do. We will leave a seat here in your honor. Crappy coffee after you're gone. It will be crap. A coffee. What is the coffee? What is the coffee

Tevo Christmann: 4:14

that you brewed for us today? Today we have airship Ethiopian. Ooh, nice. That's great. What you had yesterday, Tom, but did you just switch into airship? I feel like you just moved in. No, we've been doing airship for a long time. We would love to do Onyx. They're Ethiopian or geometry. I like that blend. Yeah, geometry is great, but it's so expensive. Airship is half the price and not half as good. It's 95% is good. So

Pastor Joe Liles: 4:41

there you go. I met a ministry in North Carolina called deep time coffee, and it was a second chance ministry for those coming out of prison and wonderful ministry, right? They help do second chance employer. They employ them. They're brewing, they're roasting, they're doing all those things. And I. Asked him in a meeting with all the youth, as he was explaining this and brewing his coffee, right? I said, Who are you watching? Right? Like, who's your inspiration? And he goes, Yeah, Onyx. And I was like, dang. And I was like, yeah, they're they're worldwide, everything that people are watching in there. Oh yeah, smells so good. Oh man, it's great. So yeah, onyx is fantastic. Airships. Great. Love airship. What does that blend I like? Do you remember the blend I like from blend I like from airship? I don't know. It's like Tonga or, gosh, it's a really fruity floral

Tevo Christmann: 5:27

so over from the from the coffee shop. Yeah, okay, I can never find it. Is that why? Yeah, they don't have it. They don't have it at what store they said I could buy it in their stores. In their store, you could, okay, do they sell? But I've never found it.

Tom Helmich: 5:40

Do they have their own, their own storefront? Oh, yeah, coffee

Tevo Christmann: 5:43

shops. And you buy it, you buy it there. Where is that at? They

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:45

have coffee shop at Kohler, on the Kohler trail. They have it North Bentonville on a on a street. What's that one called at the pump house? The pump house, yeah, it's called the pump house. Yeah. Have another one somewhere. It's on Fifth Street, if it's still there, it's the old one on Fifth Street. It's on a, oh, is it okay? Yeah, yeah, so,

Tevo Christmann: 6:01

but North side,

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:02

and they just went into mazios, mazzio and Centerton. It's a combo airship and Mazzeo, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know it's gonna work, but I'm like, great. I don't know if it's mazios brewing airship and, like, you can go get coffee there. I

Tevo Christmann: 6:17

don't know to go Italian. It's like, yeah, something.

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:22

What's the burger joint? What's the burger joint? Well, mazios is Pizza, pizza place. No, it's a burger joint. I might be saying the name wrong, because, like, pizza and coffee, the smells like, I don't know that would work. Yeah, no, no. It's next to, like, USPS on North Walton. That's, that's the same place. It's a burger I don't remember what

Tom Helmich: 6:39

neighborhood is this far into bent

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:46

bills I usually come. Oh, okay, great job. Reasons why we got to keep you know this is great. Roseanne just bringing the wisdom, which is great. So Muse and airship is what's happening. Still, sandwiches, sandwiches and coffee. Odd, yeah, it's great for them. So let's dig in a little bit before we dig in. Though we have our jingle. I

Tevo Christmann: 7:05

want a two. I want 234-793-6722, 85, neighborhood

Unknown: 7:15

church, church,

Pastor Joe Liles: 7:16

wow, yeah, Tom, sing. How to give her? Tom, sing. You gotta sing Tom. I did. That's all I got. That's all you got. That's your singing voice. I'm gonna sing next to you on Sunday. When this Sunday, we're gonna

Unknown: 7:25

rock it. It's gonna be

Pastor Joe Liles: 7:25

great. It's easy. I just keep my mouth shut. Great. It's awesome. Okay, so let's dig in. So we're in a series right now that we're talking through, and we're talking through just kind of this mountain movers. And what it means is, how do we learn to trust God when the mountains in front of us right, or even when the mountains behind us right, when we're walking up the mountain walking down the mountain, and this is just in hard times in our life. How do we learn to trust God and and I think it's something that we can all relate to in the series, is that we can relate to hard times in our life where we have struggled to understand where God is at and how our faith has an impact and the things that we are going through. And so we've been moving through the scenario. A large part of the series was in response to after mission, and making sure that in these times when we devote ourselves to mission, and we have this week where we're just really serving, and it's drawing everything from us, but also filling us at the same time, what are, what are? Where are we breaking down? Where are we breaking down and building our faith back up? And it's really in the lives of youth, but even in leaders, it happens a lot on the mission trips. Also leaders break down one because we're trying to outlast the youth on their energy and their nighttime routines, and we're out before them getting things ready. We're after them meeting, making sure everything's going good, and then coming back. So we heard the mission stories, which was good. I still want to offer up that, you know, we're praying for camp mystic and all those families the flooding in Texas. A lot of the reason we switched into this series was because of that. We were going to do a full camp series, right? That was really about the things that we learn at camp. But there was such a tragedy that happened in Texas that we wanted to give space for that and make sure that we could pray over that, and then talk about, really, how do we trust God again, right? And the things that we're going through. So this last week was about small seeds of faith. It was about these moments of small seeds of faith. And when these small seeds of faith become a reality in your life, that if you had the mustard seed size of faith, you could move mountains, right? So this comes in our mountain mover series, and and I love it because the text that we use on Sunday, which is a great illustration, the disciples are talking they couldn't heal demon, which we're going to read in a second, that person comes to Jesus, and Jesus has a very harsh response. Scripturally, it's very harsh. We talked about that on Sunday, calling them, you know, you of little faith. How much longer must I be with you? This is hard. It's tough to hear from Jesus. Then the disciples asked, what should be done different? And he said, well, because of your little faith, if you had the size of a mustard seed of faith, you could move mountains. What Jesus is saying that your faith is less than the size of a mustard seed. So if you had this mustard seed size of faith, you could have been able to move mountains. And I think for us as Christians coming into. Understand our relationship with Jesus. A lot of us feel that we're very faithful, right? We feel that we're walking into this. These were disciples doing the ministry of Jesus, walking with Jesus, and he said, you have little faith. And so it's almost a humbling way to look at where we're really at in our journey with God, and how we understand our faith. And so we are breaking that down on Sunday and just kind of understanding, what are these small seeds of faith? What do they mean in their life? And I want to take you through that text, but before we do, I want to kind of ask an intro question, an answer question I have is this, is that, when was there a time in your life that you had a small seed of faith and it grew to something bigger, right? Something that you witnessed in someone but it was a small act, a small thing in your faith, and then it grew to what we'll hear in the text from Matthew 13, was the greatest of shrubs, or a mighty tree, and it grew into something greater as time came on. So what was the time in your life when that happened?

Roseann Bowlin: 10:55

I have a couple of examples. Okay, it's great. One was, I was teaching teens Sunday School at a church we belong to my husband and I were teaching this class at the same time, and I didn't feel like I was getting through to these kids. I I just, you know, but I kept, kept it up because I had faith that I was planting seeds in these kids, and years later, I was working at Walmart, and I was a CSM, so I'm watching the front end. I'm up front, and this girl comes through, and she passes me and does a double take, and she turns around and she says, I have to hug you. And I'm like, okay, yeah. So she said, you may not remember me, but you are firmly in my memory. Yeah, you're my Sunday school teacher, and it is you talking through things that made my faith so firm. That's awesome. It gives me chills to say that, even to this day, because to get that affirmation was like, I must have done something, right? That's great. So, and that that was thrilling for me. And it came to me at a time when, you know, I'm just like, going through the motions, yeah, so, so then I went home and told my husband about it, and he's like, wow, you know. So, I mean, it was like, Okay, grab your Bible. We're going to church. That's great. So it was, it was wonderful. And the second time is going through tragedy, kind of a valley in my life. I had left one childcare, went to another. Was not a good fit there, left there. Didn't know what I was going to do. I mean, and the whole way home, I'm saying, God's got this, God's got this, God's got a plan. God's got a plan. I don't know what it is. This is painful, but I'm crying and but I'm just constantly saying that. So then, so I, I told Walmart I was working for Walmart at the time, hey, I can go full time. So they're like, Okay, we'll put you full time. So that happened. So with full time, I got benefits started the new year, it was looking good. Then my husband's accident happened, then COVID happened, oh, I mean, a few years later, so I was established full time, then COVID hit, and I'm like, I turned around and I looked at this, and I went, Man, God, I don't know why. It surprises me every time, but you are strong and mighty, because had not, had those things not happened in God's plan. I'm not sure sure where I would be, but as an essential worker during COVID, I had a job, yeah, that's great, and I wasn't sitting at home on unemployment not knowing where my next step was going to be. So so i i I felt God's presence through all of that, but then I stopped and turned around a few years later and looked and went, Wow, we don't often get to see God's plan, even when it's painful. Yeah. So that's where my wisdom and faith comes from is that I've had that happen, and God's been with me. So I know God's going to be with me through all the other stuff, too, and I don't worry so much

Pastor Joe Liles: 14:54

as you say, Wow, no, right now, where did that seed begin? So I mean that last story that you shared, i. You know, you said you started in a valley, you know, you were talking through this. You saw that, you know, Walmart had a full time job, and then the husband accident, like these are many years. I mean, you went through, yes, I mean, a span of probably five years in that time that you were talking right, from the seed of faith all the way through to, like, recognizing that God is always with you. Where, where do you think that initial seed planted right that led you through kind of that small faith that led into something bigger later on,

Roseann Bowlin: 15:24

probably as a child. I mean when, when I was about 12 or 13, on Easter, I might tear up, but it was Easter, and I remember being at church growing up Catholic, and I felt the Holy Spirit whisper to me, even you, that Jesus died even for me, and I feel very insignificant, yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 15:54

yeah, that's powerful, right? Insignificance and small seed are two different ways to look at that, which is very interesting, right? Because I think we think take things that are small and sometimes make them insignificant, and hearing even you says, Hey, you're not insignificant. You might feel small in the world, but Jesus sees you for who you are, yeah, and walks with you through all this.

Roseann Bowlin: 16:14

I mean, I never, have, never will be a big, powerful preacher or but I can do small things.

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:22

Oh, you preached hot yesterday you were preaching to me that yesterday you were talking like you ready to go. I think you could bring the word on to Sunday. That'd be great. So okay, this, I appreciate you sharing that that was a vulnerable story. And I think that, you know, as we talk through the different mountains in our life, I mean, you named mountains without naming them. You know, these are important things. You

Roseann Bowlin: 16:43

know, sometimes you can be on the mountain and you're looking around going, life is good, yeah? And we don't stop to give God that glory, yeah, all the time. And he deserves that. I mean, the reason we're on the mountain top and life is good is because God's there with us. What

Pastor Joe Liles: 17:03

about you guys? Do you have some stories of a small seed of faith that transformed into something greater?

Tevo Christmann: 17:11

I think we're talking about seeds. It reminds me of the still small whisper, right? Or what's the more, the more accurate translation. If you Does anybody know it's not, apparently, the word is not whisper. It's this. It's, I know you're talking about it means silence, yeah, you know, right? There's still small silence. It's weird. I mean, it's Hebrew, it's not English, whatever, but it's there's something in the quiet right that you hear from God. It's whispers, it's little flashes. It's glimpses, right? Just Lewis talks about glimpses. Talks about when you see a piece of art that leads you to sort of transcend, or you hear a piece of music that leads you to transcend, or when you eat something that you're just you, that you marvel at, or when you see someone who's beautiful, or just these esthetic experiences are when you spend time in nature, he calls them glimpses, yeah, of the Divine, right? It's it. They're not the divine itself, but they hint at something greater than our earthly sort of experience. And so I think, I think God, God always speaks to us through these little things, you know, if, if you're, if you're in in the mode of listening to God, if you're in the phase where you think God's reaching, and like, you know when that's happening, because you feel it. You find yourself meditating on on scripture, find yourself meditating on what God might be like and what God might be doing. And you find your mind just sort of gravitating to it naturally. That's That's God working in you, you know, and you start to see God in all sorts of little things. And, I mean, I would, I was going through that multiple times, but I just remember sitting down, getting home from work, and just sitting down to turn the TV on, and Narnia is on, and I am bawling, oh, you know, yeah. And I was like, I don't even know why I'm crying, but Aslan is so cool, or, you know, like, at one point, you know, it was, it was a sort of a nascent era or time of my life where I'm just, I was just, like, making big changes, you know, and, you know, like the Christian perspective was starting to take root into into my life, and I wanted to make some decisions that that were founded on Christ as a reality in my life, you know. So at that point, like the kinds of friendships I'm going to press into were intentional, you know, they weren't accidental. Anymore. I. The kinds of values that I hold as non negotiable, became intentional. This is I'm going to accept these things into parts of my very identity. You know, I am a Christian as a matter of identity, and so it's just a transformation and accepting these things. And part of that was just having this, this intense hunger for mentorship, yeah, you know, I just craved pastoring. I craved somebody who would look into my life and would Gordon Ramsay it, you know, and I would often just watch Gordon Ramsay and I'm like, Man, I wish somebody would just come into, yeah, my life's kitchen, yeah, right.

Pastor Joe Liles: 20:44

I love how Gordon Ramsay as a person, as a mentor, I'm like, that's a tough mentor. I guys coming in hot. I

Tevo Christmann: 20:49

needed truth. Yeah, what I wanted, I want. I wanted truth. I want somebody to come into my life and speak truth, yeah, and call me out on the things that I was doing wrong, and just just set things straight, you know. And I got that to some degree, and I still wish we I could have gotten somebody that was just full on. Gordon Ramsay, you know, I can't do a court Gordon Ramsay,

Tom Helmich: 21:10

impression here an image I'll never get out of my mind. Now, oh, you won't have Yeah,

Tevo Christmann: 21:15

I love watching Gordon Ramsey, in no small part, for that reason, is just remembering this season of wanting somebody who's who's more experienced, more well versed, you know, has been on the on the walk longer, and needing that, needing that, to model someone like that. And to me, I would just watch Gordon Ramsay, and I was just dream of having that kind of mentorship. And so these little things, you know, like you just, my point is, when God starts to draw on your heart, the little things start to show up everywhere, yeah, you know. And I don't know that it's possible to trace one big thing all the way back to one little thing, yeah, you know, maybe, maybe it might be for somebody. But I don't, I don't know that it is totally

Tom Helmich: 22:05

possible to throw the mustard seed down on the ground. You're never gonna find it again, right? Yeah, it's so small. So

Tevo Christmann: 22:10

yeah. I mean, I had, I had other, you know, when I started coming to faith, part of, part of what led me to start questioning where my life was headed in the first place is looking at friends of mine who had never left the faith, you know? And it's like, wait, you just, like, they just made better decisions than I did. They're just, you know what? I mean? It's like, Oh, that. Like, sure, you withdrew from some of the craziness that I dove headlong into. But honestly, like, I got nothing out of that, yeah, ultimately, and, you know, just, it just reminds me of the book of Proverbs, you know, just make good decisions there. They're going to be temptations, left and right, but just follow a good path, the path that your father might tell you to go. Yeah, right. And it'll it's better for you to do that, yeah? So, just little, like, just little interactions with other people start coming to mind. So, yeah, I mean, the little thing is just it also reminds me of, like, organizationally, if you have a business or a church or a nonprofit or stuff like that, often we get together and we draw up these long strategies, right awardees, convoluted strategies, and there's mission, and there's vision, and there's all sorts of techniques, strengths and weaknesses, yeah, you know, threats and opportunities, all of these business techniques. But ultimately, none of that stuff matters, because the real vision, the real mission, comes through in the little moments. You know, it's, it's when no one's looking, you really learn what the true vision is. So, I mean, the little things are just a reflection of the big things. Anyway, I'm rambling now.

Pastor Joe Liles: 23:50

So, no, no, I think it's exactly how we kind of look at, not only church life, right, but as you come through, what I spoke at the end of the message, was that same thing, and I think I heard it from you, is that you start to make decisions about being equally yoked with those around you, right? And you realize that, yeah, yes, I want seeds of faith planted in me. That's beautiful. It's a beautiful narrative in the Scripture, right? Like, yes, plant seeds of faith, but we're also called to plant seeds in others. And I think at certain times we're talking about our faith, specifically, right now, about small moments of our faith, and when those grew bigger. But I really think that if you want to be in a field and be sowing and reaping, right what is ever happening in Christian faith in life, that you have to be around those who are walking that path. We don't do it perfectly. There's not going to be any group that walks it perfectly. But yeah, you'll have hard mentors in your life. You'll have friends that are like, Oh, you're making better decisions. They're not the best decisions, but you are making better decisions, and you're informing them by your relationship with God or relationship to the church or through a light. You know, somewhere in here, you are making decisions about this. And I think that was a challenging message point of the message that I brought at the very tail end of the message, I said, if you if you don't have friends that are challenging you and your family. Faith, and they're not asking about your relationship with God. You should question who you're hanging out with, right? Because it might not be the equally yoked nature of what God's intending for you. And I think we get really comfortable in our friend groups, and we struggle on those sometimes, and but through those, we should be challenged, right? We should feel that challenge to be convicted towards that life of Christ. And you should challenge, Oh, absolutely, yeah. I think friends should speak life into you, right? They should speak, as you said, truth into you, right? And they should say, Hey, I see you going this direction. That might not be the best direction. I see this happening over here. That might not be the best direction or affirming when, hey, that was incredible. I love that you sacrificed in this moment. You did this, and everything else like that. So what about you? Tom, when was a moment for a small seed of faith? I'm

Tom Helmich: 25:40

thinking about that, and I'm not sure, okay, it's only thing where you kind of look back,

Tevo Christmann: 25:44

only big moments for Tom, big faith. Tom,

Tom Helmich: 25:48

like, if you watch as you watch your kids grow, which would be anything for you table to watch, like you're looking at them, and it's just, it's just who they are, and until you look back, like a picture of them, like a year before and notice the change, is the only time you notice what's going on, sure. So you really got to look back to kind of see it. You know where you were before, how things were in your life before, to be able to really know where you you know where you sit, where you are now. And so for me, I mean, I, I was baptized. I remember when I was baptized with my uncle, and grew up in the church the entire time. And it was just something that was always, you know, always there. Yeah, they've been moments that have kind of helped solidify things a little bit, you know, here and there, but nothing, you know, remarkable. It's just been this kind of, I mean, it's part of my personality, of that slow constant, you know, burn in a certain fashion, you know, like, if you're, like a runner, some people are sprinters or do extreme stuff, and then you have the the LSD runners, long, slow distance, okay? And it's just consistent, even pace of just kind of continuing along. That's just kind of what my life has felt like. I mean, right after high school, I got a phase about for about a year, I didn't go to church because I realized that I could just sleep, yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 27:01

till noon, yeah, yeah, that's great sleeping. And slept till noon in a millennia, right? I don't understand it. I literally, yeah, it

Tom Helmich: 27:10

was a thing, and I don't think I really got anything out of that, either. But then eventually it's like, there, in that moment where, all sudden, something's missing a little bit, yeah, started kind of getting back into that. And then, you know, Amy and I got married, and we're going a little bit here and there. We tried some different churches, because pipe organs are strange to her, okay, yeah, basing the campus ministry. Oh, beautiful. And I, because I was there, we were dating, I was there at her, at her baptism.

Pastor Joe Liles: 27:34

Okay, this is a story I want to hear. Maybe it's time for a great podcast on, like, baptism stories. But, yeah,

Tom Helmich: 27:39

it was great. It was neat, you know, but looking at kind of how that that worked, and looking at different churches, when I really started kind of looking at what my faith really wasn't, theology really was, yeah, what I believed and didn't, and we, we eventually wound up circling back around to to another Lutheran Church. Mm, great. But it's just been this kind of slow, consistent thing, you know, like, if you plant a tree, you know, and you're looking for the difference, you really got to look at, you know, big times in the life, like day one and three years later to see the differences. Yeah, it's beautiful. I'm sure when we get done, like, two or three hours from now, a great example, you'll

Pastor Joe Liles: 28:13

be like, oh, man, this is the best seat of faith example. That's

Tevo Christmann: 28:16

great. I think that's kind of what the passage means, right? You have an insignificant amount of faith that leads to a very significant amount of growth, and you can't always trace it, but,

Tom Helmich: 28:27

and the cool thing about that the mustard seed thing, so he said, If you had faith size of a mustard seed, you could move mountains, right? Yeah. None of us can literally move a mountain, yeah? Which means, and it's unclear even why you would want to, why you want to, right? Well, yeah, so, but even then, if our our faith is less than that mustard seed, but yet it's it was, and it's a gift to something get not, it's not our own faith, right? So faith given to us, but that small amount of faith, so much smaller than a mustard seed, is still enough to defeat the temptation of the devil, yeah, and it's still enough to defeat death. So God only had to give us that tiny little bit to do that.

Tevo Christmann: 29:02

Don't, don't you think that, because Jesus is what reprimanding people on not having, yeah, it's harsh critique that there is a degree to which, like Paul says, faith is a gift from God, right? So we're given faith. And I actually also believe that? Well, Paul says it so I should, yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 29:24

I also believe this part of Scripture, so many questions.

Tevo Christmann: 29:29

But I do feel, you know, and call me synergistic, I guess, if you want, but I do feel that there is at one point where there has to be intention to meet that gift.

Tom Helmich: 29:41

Oh, yeah, it's what you're going to do with it. Yeah, it's like, if I, if I give somebody a gift and they just set it on a shelf and do nothing with it, you know, then what's the gift we give them? The gift for a reason to do something, you know, and interacting with people, people around us, plus you gotta look at, you know, it was automatic speakers. It was written. Into Greek. And they get the Greek word pistis, which you can dig into for hours, like, way more than, yeah, was Jesus really talking about faith? Or he's like, you know, you have little trust, you know, why do you trust? Because there's kind of dual meanings in there. But at some point in time, you know, we have to either live into our we either turn away from our faith, or we live into our faith, right? And that's about the limit of our choice in life. It's like, what we're gonna what we're gonna to do with it, and where people would really get into problems is when there's dissonance between your faith and your beliefs and your actions. Yeah, you know, it's like giving somebody a wonderful gift, valuable gift, and then they just kind of like, walk away from it, don't do anything

Tevo Christmann: 30:39

with it. The fact that matters, that your actions are your beliefs, right, right? And

Tom Helmich: 30:44

you have time and money for the things that are important, yeah? Yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 30:47

absolutely. And that's a response that we have right to that gift, right? The response of how we walk in this life, right, and live out that faith, I think, is what's being referenced here in Scripture. Exactly. It's a harsh critique, because it's, how are you living this out? Right? And specific response to disciples not carrying demons because they didn't pray. So if you imagine that Jesus understands this nature and says, You've like, your response was to pray. Your response was to honor God. Your response was to say, this isn't of your power. It's not of your power. It's never been of your power. It's a response from God. And what you forgot is to respond to God first, you know, like, so I can see the the frustration. Yes, he's teaching. It's

Tom Helmich: 31:24

kind of an innate problem with humanity is we always want to make it about us. Oh, absolutely, it's always about, you know, what, what I can do, and what, what can be accredited to me and everything. Even in faith, we keep coming back to that, yeah, you know, instead of wanting to give the glory to God and praying, it's like, well, I have the authority I do this, and then it doesn't work. And I wait a minute.

Pastor Joe Liles: 31:44

Yeah, I was talking with someone this week, and it was a pastor out in Wisconsin, actually. So one of the teams that I'm on is in Wisconsin for the gathering, right? Was talking to pastor in Wisconsin, and he says, this week, he goes, You don't remember me, do you? And I was like, I'm sorry. I was like, I That's my bad, you know, school, yeah. I was like, I don't he goes, we met eight years ago. And I was like, Oh yeah, I feel like, I get a I get a pass, you know? Like, that's okay, right? And he goes, we met when you and Jess were in Seattle teaching at a mission Developers Conference. And I was like, Oh, great. I totally remember that, because that was our team. That, because that was our 10 year anniversary trip, right? And I was like, so I have great memories from that trip. We were that when you went camping, that was when we camping, yeah? And we went, we did 10 dates for 10 years. So we did our art date, we did a food date, we did Starbucks coffee, because that's where it came from. So we did the Starbucks date, then we did camping, we did a sports game, right? We did movie night date, right? So, I mean, we did 10 dates in 10 days. It was awesome. It was so good and so, but we taught at this conference leading up to this and then spent 10 days in Ho National Forest, different things like that. And so he goes, Yeah, he goes, You were speaking then of the neighborhood. And he goes, and you were talking about the vision of this church plant and what it's becoming, and how you're trying to test, you know, models for the future of church and what this means. And he goes, and we talked for like, an hour, you know, when we were there, and he goes, and you guys just poured into, like, what is the future of the church? And he goes, and you're teaching, you know, what we were teaching at the time was the nuts and bolts of church planning. Like, if you're looking at the future of church, here's what it means to be sustainable, here's what it means to go forward. But go forward. And he goes, and we still talk about the neighborhood church today, right in our church, he goes, and actually, we model the things that we do off the things that you're doing. And he goes, Yeah, can we just talk for an, you know, half hour, and we I can just ping you with questions, right? And I was like, I never knew that conversation on a time when I was teaching, right, which to me a teaching to many different people, sitting down for that one moment, was going to be an eight year journey to a future conversation that we had unexpectedly. Then we spent, you know, half hour, 45 minutes talking this week just about the life of church, and where is church headed, and how can we do that in congregations, and what is the future? And that was a small seed, and and I don't think, and this is where I go back to the insignificance a little bit. I don't think it was insignificant at the time, right? I do feel it was something maybe unnoticed at the time, right? But man, like insignificant, such a hard work for me, because it really takes away the work of God in that moment, right? Like we could never see the significance of it in the moment. So it's something that's unnoticed, right? It's imperceivable, right? It's, it's something that God has planted, that's God says, hey, 10 years from now, this is going to be a dramatic impact. No idea, and let alone no relationship, no growth over here. I mean, that person that was there was not in seminary at the time, was learning, at the time, was growing, and just got ordained a couple of years ago, just went like, no idea, right? There's no way that I could have known, right?

Tom Helmich: 34:49

So it's like God took what was insignificant in what you were doing and turned it into something significant for

Pastor Joe Liles: 34:54

somebody. Yes. I mean, this goes back to what you were saying, right? Tebo, that if we go through life, you. Planting these seeds of insignificant, small moments, it should reflect the larger vision, like these small moments should be lived out to where, yeah, we don't know what happens next, but we know in every small moment there's an interaction that creates something that moves forward beyond us. And I think that's an important reality in the life of the church right that leads through to other people's lives that may not impact the neighborhood church right? That doesn't have an impact, or my conversation with him does not have an impact on the life of the neighborhood church, right? It has an impact on the kingdom, on the church, on the church, yeah, exactly, church. And I don't even say it's because of me, right? That's because of the work of God in other places, right, which is a beautiful thing to see, right? That God's raising up those people, yeah, and

Tom Helmich: 35:39

I should think of this scene from the Kung Fu Panda

Pastor Joe Liles: 35:43

classic, hold on hold on hold on there are four movies I want to think about. What scene you're thinking of the first movie, first movie in the sea is

Tom Helmich: 35:53

and Shifu is talking to like the little rat or whatever the master or ninja master. Or ninja master, whatever. Yeah, yes. Sir is talking to the old

Pastor Joe Liles: 36:05

turtle. Yes. That's great. Yeah, I love the turtle monster. Yeah. Po Yeah,

Tom Helmich: 36:09

because Shifu thinks it's a waste of time. Yep. And ugway is like, you just plant the seed and you have to let

Pastor Joe Liles: 36:14

it grow. That's it. Yeah, no control over there underneath the tree, when they're talking about this tree, yeah, that's great.

Tom Helmich: 36:19

Yeah. And, but chief was like, no, but, you know, we can plant it where we want it. We can, you know, put it into the ground and and make it be there. And who goes, like, you be can't make it grow. And if you plant a peach, you'll get a peach. You can't make it an apple. Or, yeah, whatever the terms were. And that kind of shows like, the reality of what our the simple part, what our role is in it, yeah, God gives us seeds through our faith to plant, and then God grows them. So like, we can't claim that glory for ourselves. That's the insignificance. Yeah, is our action, but we can't really translate that over to the significance of what God is doing through those seeds. Yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 36:51

that's exactly right. Yeah. One of my first point in the message was that the seeds of faith that are sown right should always be to serve the kingdom. That's it, right? If it's to serve ourselves, we've failed in the mission of what Christ is intending for us holy and fully. And so yeah, let's open up scripture. And just kind of takes you. Now that we've been talking about it, everyone pretty much knows the Scripture because we've referenced the whole thing 10 times. But let's read it. Let's take a second to read Scripture and and then we'll get into Roseanne notes after that. And so Alright, table Do you want to kick us off? We're going to be Matthew chapter 17, starting in verse 14, reading all the way through 20, if you want to start us, yeah, all

Tevo Christmann: 37:25

right. Verse 14, when they came to the crowd, a man came to him, knelt before him, and said, Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and he suffers terribly. He often falls into the fire and often into the water.

Tom Helmich: 37:40

And I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him. Jesus answered you, faithless and perverse generation. Ouch, yeah. How much longer must I be with you? How much longer must I put up with you? Bring him here to me,

Pastor Joe Liles: 37:55

and Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was cured instantly. Then the disciples came to Jesus privately, I love that line, privately and said, Why could we not cast it out? And He said to them,

Roseann Bowlin: 38:11

because of your little faith, for truly, I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move from here to there, and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.

Pastor Joe Liles: 38:27

I just have to say we read the Scripture. Roseanne preached the scripture that was strong. Roseanne, that was well done. You came in strong. I love it. So that's the Scripture we've been referencing, and what we spoke about on Sunday that led into this kind of small seeds of faith. Yeah, Jesus is harsh, right? In this it's hard to hear. I mean, if anyone said in here to me at any point, and they said, How much longer must I be with you? How much longer must I put up with you? Right? That's just a hard language at all in any person's life, as we come through, and he's speaking to the disciples in the midst of this group of people, and it's it's interesting, because I don't think it's directed necessarily at the father bringing the epileptic son, right? Because in that reality, yes, you would hope that this father has the faith Same deal of a mother see of a mustard seed to heal and do these things. But the disciples have been tasked with the mission to go out and heal and cure. And so with that, they've given, given the power to do this, but have come back unsuccessful, not unfaithful, but unsuccessful in that mission. And this language, I believe, is that response to that, they haven't lived out the faith that was intended, right? The intended to give glory to God. And that was kind of the second point of my message, was that. And it really kind of stopped me as I think through the text, what does move the mountain if you have the faith of a mustard seed, it's not a glorification to show that you can move a mountain, right? I mean, that's that's just a show of force. It's a show of power. It has to glorify

Tom Helmich: 39:53

God, yeah? Cuz it's gotta be God's power that moves it

Pastor Joe Liles: 39:56

100% and so if we're trying to do these things in our life, when we're. Not giving glory to God on behalf of it, then we're failing from the start, right? That's where we have little faith from the start, is that it doesn't glorify God in all that we do. And so I see that here in this text in a really incredible way. But Roseanne, you were sitting in the church on Sunday, and so what were your What was your takeaway from the message on Sunday in a segment that we call Roseanne notes.

Roseann Bowlin: 40:23

That's so funny. Okay, so I'm kind of wrapping a couple of thoughts here all up together. But if you plant, if your faith is like a mustard seed, which is very, very small, yeah, and it it's planted, it's watered, it's nurtured. It grows. That's your faith growing. But it grows from the winds, like W, I N, S winds of your prayer. So as you see prayers answered, and you glorify God for those answered prayers, then your faith also grows, and you can be that strong person who can give advice and can say, I don't know what God's plan is, but he's got a plan, and we're going to move forward.

Pastor Joe Liles: 41:29

So I love that faith. I had that moment this morning, and I hadn't thought about it when we were talking about this before the podcast, but I had a direct moment where I heard from God this morning like you just need time with me to pray like that. That was that was just the intentionality, and it came through me not wanting to spend time doing that. I was going on a run this morning. I have an hour and 21 minutes left in this book that I've been reading on on audio, and it's fantastic. And I get really excited when I get near the end, because I get to finish a book, and I feel like I'm accomplished and so and it's not a it's a novel. It's not a book where I'm learning, it's just a book that I'm I've been listening to, and it's quirky, and it's right up my alley, right? It's called dungeon crawler, Carl. I don't know if you guys have heard this at all. So it's, it's not anything you need to read because it's a small market, but it's, it's just something that is I'm able to run to and listen to and enjoy, and it's just enough to kind of say, Okay, I don't often take time to read for joy. So this has been great. And I opened up my AirPods, and they weren't in there, and I realized, you know, there's a moment when you know you're gonna about to go on an hour run, and you're like, I'm gonna be in my thoughts for an hour. Like, this is not where I wanted to be thoughts. Oh yeah, I was just a morning where I didn't want to be. I love running. I love running without music, like I did my last 50k without music, like I just ran. And I love the sounds, and it's beautiful. This morning. I did not want that. There's always a time when

Tom Helmich: 42:57

you don't want to have a conversation with somebody. Man, sometimes that comes up when you don't want to be had a conversation with you. Conversation with yourself

Pastor Joe Liles: 43:04

either, you know. And I put them away, and I was disappointed. It was one of those were like, I'm gonna go back to my house, but it was 20 minutes away. And I was like, I'd ruin the whole 40 minutes. And so I closed them, and I was like, All right, just gonna go. And that just means I have an hour, an hour in my head, and I knew that my head was not in the right space. And I was like, Man, I'm going to be thinking about everything for an hour. And I was like, this is not going to draw on my day. Yesterday, I felt so good after my run, and today, I was like, Oh, I'm just going to be in it. So I started running, I dropped Kaylee off, and I start running down the Greenway, and I'm just, I'm going my knees hurting a little bit. And I'm like, God, this is just not where I want to be this morning. And I was like, Okay. And so I kind of settled in, you know, about a half mile in, and I just heard God say, hey, we have an hour to pray together. Like, why don't you just let your mind go and we're going to pray right now. And I was like, and this, like, peace just overwhelmed me. And I was like, Yeah, I don't have to be in my head. I just had to take time to pray and listen and so and so. I gave myself permission for my mind to wander. I gave myself permission to lift up prayers as I heard them, right? And I just spent the whole hour right, talking and listening to God. And it was that moment, right? I wouldn't say I had a win from it. And then there wasn't a huge revelation that came from it, right? It was not yet. It would not yet. It was a seed planted, and it just it sat in that space in a really wonderful way. So I love that it is about the winds of prayer, and I think that's directly related to Scripture too. Is that our wins from prayer and and prayer theologically, isn't like a winning, losing relationship, but I think it's always a lifting up relationship, right? And that we do feel there are times when prayers are answered, but I think there's also in times when what we feel is insignificant God is moving and weaving into a story of God's Kingdom work. I had someone early on the church say it was the slow work of God. It's always the slow work of God. And I was like, Yep, and that is anti everything in this life, right? How? We look forward, we are a compelled, driven, ambitious society and culture, and that moves at a pace where the church is almost counter cultural to that, and that it is a work of faith all of our life to just endure. And so yeah, any other comments from Roseanne? Notes The

Tevo Christmann: 45:21

to piggyback on what you said, the winds of prayer are Jesus said, whatever you ask in my name will be given to you. And so the exercise of prayer is one where you align yourself to his name, right and and then you experience the winds of prayer. And the winds of prayer is built in to the aligning, yeah, yourself to His will. So I think, yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean every time you ask for, we have to stay shy of that prosperity gospel great, that every time you ask for a car, you get a new car. And then you pray, you pray for a lake house, and then, you know, then, then faith will be strong. That's not, obviously, that's not. That's not. What that means the winds of prayer are, is, are the changes that happen within you? Yeah, in the exercise of prayer, yeah, yeah. Sometimes there are real, actual, physical, tangible wins, but they come from that aligned perspective, you know. But

Pastor Joe Liles: 46:24

table, if I get a really nice house with a big backyard, then I can bite people over, and we can do discipleship studies in a really big backyard, right? Yeah, the glorification,

Tom Helmich: 46:35

it's a hard balance of knowing what like what point requires our action versus requires our inaction. Yeah, yeah. Because I think part of when we actually try to live our life out, you know, inspired by our faith and put that into action, is sometimes that's kind of relinquishing ourselves to God's authority instead of, instead of fighting it, yeah. But then there's sometimes where we need to be activated to go do something. Like, there's the, you know, the story of the man on the roof and the water's getting higher, yeah, all these people come to help him, and he dies. And he's like, God, why didn't you save me? He's like, Man, I sent a boat. Yeah, no, but thinking about this, it's like, oh, the thing popped into my head before we left the podcast. So when Amy and I were getting married, so this is 1999 I got engaged in 98 and 99 I was looking for a house. I was renting a house in a not incredible neighborhood in Rogers with two other guys one block away from there, where they've been a couple of drive by shootings. Actually,

Pastor Joe Liles: 47:31

that's not going to be the start of married life. I'll tell you that two

Tom Helmich: 47:36

other dudes that you know, whatever and that going on. And so we hired a real estate agent, and we're looking for a house to buy. So because this is, this was in the summertime, like, you know, May, June, and we're getting married that November, and we saw a few houses with this real estate agent, we told her what we're looking for, something with a decent sized front yard and a front porch, kind of back off the road. And she kept showing us these big brick things with no front porch right on the road. What she was wanting to sell, basically. And I said, Now something we're looking for, I'm really looking for this. And she just quit calling us back. I guess, technically, I'm still waiting for to call me back, maybe. Oh, wow. She's Wow. She's quit calling back. Whoo. And it was Amy's idea, listen

Pastor Joe Liles: 48:13

to this podcast, and that seed of faith we just planted right there. Oh, I should get back to him,

Tom Helmich: 48:17

okay, but, and it's Amy's idea. We're at the sitting in the couch in the living room in that rent house, and this is summertime. I still had my Christmas tree up because we were three bachelors, you know, yeah, and we thought she had what she did. She's like, why don't we just pray about it and then just let it go and we'll just move on. Mm, hmm. And so I was like, okay, so we and at that point, for me, prayer was a very private thing. We didn't pray out loud around other people. And there's a whole part of the Bible that, you know, go and pray to your in secret. Your father, who's in secret, will will hear in secret, you know. And so not part of it, you know. That was not big thing in the tradition, Lutheran tradition, and praying out loud with other people. So it was a little awkward, but we did it, and then we forgot about it. It's just a couple days later, I was going to eat lunch in Fayetteville with my mom. Yeah, driving down Pleasant Grove Road, there's nothing there, because back then you had to go to Fayetteville to, like, get a decent restaurant, you know? And there's this piece of plywood with this For Sale sign stapled on it and a handwritten phone number. And my mom's driving, and she's like, what's that? I'm like, I don't know. She's like, Oh, that's look so she pulls into this gravel driveway, and I look down the driveway, and I'm looking at the front of the house we live in right now.

Pastor Joe Liles: 49:22

Oh, wow, still gravel. Yeah, it's still

Tom Helmich: 49:26

and I'm like, well, that's kind of cool. And so I called Amy, she was working at back when it was St Mary's, yeah, and told her about it, you know. And so we drove by and looked at it, and she's like, oh, yeah, that's nice house, you know, you can afford that. And and call my grandfather, and he looked at it, and he's like, yes, good bit. You know, his businessman, business investment, if you like it, buy it, move in. If you don't like it, buy it, bulldoze it and sell it, resell the land in 10 years. Yeah, exactly. And so he's setting up an appointment. And, I mean, I bought it in June or no, it was all. August, by the time we got around to that point is August. Bought it in August and moved in, and then we were married that November. Wow, that's great. And had no furniture yet,

Pastor Joe Liles: 50:08

yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely.

Tom Helmich: 50:12

But I know real estate helped us find that. I didn't find it on a search, yeah, we literally said a prayer and then just forgot about it. And my mom on a whims like, what's down this road and just turned into this random road we know. Random road we never seen before? Wow, yeah, sometimes that happens. It just kind of just showed up. Yeah, that's great. At that moment, I'm like, that's, that's not a coincidence that ever happens to me. Yeah, correct, you know, and, and there's, they're building a subdivision around it, and they're building these much more expensive homes, and the guy who owned that two little over two and a half acres that we have now, didn't like the idea of what they're doing these other houses, and was refusing to sell property to the builder. That's great, because they wanted to incorporate that in the neighborhood, yeah. And he's like, No. And so when I called him, he's like, oh, yeah, getting ready to have, you know, young couple get married. Want to have kids eventually, yeah. And so we got it for a pretty good price, a lot less than what the builder is absolutely going to pay him for it. Yeah. And we've been there for 26 years. That's

Pastor Joe Liles: 51:07

awesome. Thank God, good. God is good. That's great.

Tom Helmich: 51:11

Gosh, yeah. And no and no desire to ever move, yeah, yeah.

Pastor Joe Liles: 51:15

So I think we've heard them as Bob as is, pray in a beautiful way, right? That is the evidence of what glorifies God. Give glory to God. That prayer, right? Begin with everything, right? In the series of prayer, yeah, be obedient. But trust God. That's beautiful. So trust in God is great, because that is actually next week's message. When you come to understand small seeds of faith, there's a great time. Thanks Tom. Appreciate that. Thanks for the transition. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, no idea, yeah. So next week is about trusting God. It's really about this identity of, how do we learn to trust God? And there's two realities there. I would say it out loud that one, if we're in a faithful relationship with God, and we're moving and we feel like we're connected to God, how do you continue to trust God, right? And and I think take that next step in saying that all that I've been given is God's that has been given first. So what does that mean to trust God with everything that I have. That's a hard language. I think there's a beautiful language within the right of a funeral that says, I want to learn again to trust you God. And I think there's a part where we walk back to God, learning to trust God again in the really hard times in our lives. So we're gonna speak about both those on Sunday as it comes in, as we continue our mountain mover series. And all God's people

Unknown: 52:20

said, Amen.