Beyond Comfort, Just Surviving: Stories from the Streets and Serving

Join the Neighborhood Church staff as they dive deep into their recent mission trips and explore what it truly means to serve others. In this candid and heartfelt episode, Pastor Joe and the team share stories from their missions to Fayetteville and Winston-Salem, revealing powerful moments of human connection, service, and unexpected transformations.

Key Takeaways:

• Mission isn't just about service, it's about building relationships
• Sometimes serving means stepping out of your comfort zone
• Small acts of kindness can create significant life changes
• Housing insecurity is complex and requires compassion

Memorable Quotes:

• "Whatever you did to the least of these, you did to me." - Biblical reference
• "God showed up" - Tracy (mission trip participant)
• "When you give, it's not about what they're gonna do with it" - Staff discussion on helping others

Highlights:

• Youth mission project experiences
• Encounters with housing insecure individuals
• Personal stories of unexpected connections
• Reflections on Christian service and community

A raw, honest look at mission work that will inspire and challenge listeners to see the world - and each other - differently.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introductions
• 3:31 Mission Trip Experiences
• 10:01 What is "Housing Insecurity?"
• 25:01 Personal Mission Encounters
• 42:01 Spiritual Reflection on Mission
• 54:31 Upcoming Church Series and Closing

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Two minute podcast. Okay, welcome to the TNC podcast. Recorded live. No, I'm just kidding, recorded in studio, live, pre recorded. It's live over recorded, it's live or recorded, but live when we put it back out, not when you're listening to not when you're listening in studio, in front of an online audience, in front of an online audience, there are zero people in the church right now listening to this podcast, we are literally just having a conversation among staff. That's true. That is what this podcast is. It is a breakdown of the message on Sunday, breakdown a little bit of life of the church. You getting some wonderful links, and you get to hear from your beloved staff at the neighborhood church. You get to little know a little bit more about them. Let's introduce who is with us today on the podcast. To my left the director of operations at the neighborhood church. It is Roseanne bowling. Roseanne bowling. And if you don't know, just so we can be clear as we set her up for later, Roseanne has her own segment on the podcast, which I absolutely love. And now, I mean, there's a lot of pressure, because you basically started off saying you had some notes. We created a segment. You got to sing it. It's gonna have sing it. It is 123, roses, No, later, yeah, later, yeah. That's gonna be great. So we'll have a little bit of your notes from Sunday message as a person sitting in the church just listening intently to the Word of God, the stories of testimony, the mission of the church, and then providing feedback on what you find important, or, as you've said in previous podcasts, what you didn't find a value so on one of my messages. So if we're gonna let go of that, it still hurts. Yep, it still hurts a little bit. So alright, to my right, newly on staff within the last week, officially, as the pastor of care and education at the neighborhood church, it is Pastor Tom, yes, you'd had to say the same. People still say, hey pastor, and I turn around and look for you behind me. Yeah, that's right. No, it's you know, it's you right? First time I heard that, I was like, who's Karen? Yeah, educating. Karen, yeah, that's great. Karen, education. Funny, good, yeah. And then also, next to us, right? The Director of Music and worship here, as is the neighborhood church. It is Tavo table. That's great. It's wonderful. So we're on the podcast today, having a great time talking through the messages on Sunday, which was unique. I have been gone for a week and a half, only one Sunday, but gone for really two weeks, actually, on mission, back to back mission trips. It's exciting. Love to jump in with the youth two mission projects. One was down in Fayetteville with Ozark mission project, which we've done for about five to seven years now. It's awesome. It is from the Methodist tradition the denomination, which we can talk about in a little bit, but and we'll give a little feedback of what that is. And then the second one I went on was with Spark dwell, and that was with the dwelling in North Carolina, led by Pastor Emily Harkins, who came and preached earlier in the year, and then, and also with the spark nonprofit out there, which helps out with the housing insecure and different other different organizations and community nonprofit areas out in Winston Salem, North Carolina. So so just an opening for the podcast. Is our jingle, 1-234-793-6722, 85 neighborhood church. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. That was a great note, Roseanne. Roseanne notes that was just a singing note, which that was good, see, I pulled the note. Okay, thanks. No. So with that, Okay, never mind. Let's talk about mission, and let's just kind of see what's going on here. Have you guys? Have you guys been on youth mission before? Tommy, you've been on youth mission as a leader. One day, one day, well, we had the youth gathering, which was the gathering, and one of those days was a day of mission. Oh, okay, in the community, yeah, you led the gathering. Led the gathering trip. Okay, great. And then we had one day in the community working on a community garden. That's great. That was the the mission day for the How did the community garden go? Did that go? Well, it went really good. It was a little terrifying, because I can tell like the people that set it up had a great idea. They found people, Hey, we need tools. We get tools. They didn't think about turning teenagers loose with things that could cut all their fingers off. What were you gardening with that could cut all the fingers off? Well, we're building raised beds. Oh. And so had all the wood. Oh, yeah. And then you they had, they had skill saws, and then saw horses and links, and then a bunch of teenagers. And said, here's all the saws and all the batteries and Wow, and so. But I brought a nurse who actually teaches nursing classes with me, one of the dads, because, you know, handy to have, right? And so he's Jeff Cordell. He's looking at me like, because he's worked on those people who've come in like, you know, waving with eight fingers now, and I'm like, okay, so I went and got my tourniquet. Oh, wow. I prepared. So I had that with me, and I had a nice, honest conversation the kids about what it looks like, feels like, sounds like, when somebody cuts through bone with a saw. And. And and had a good you basically scared the kids. And I had a three or four minute graphic discussion, oh my gosh, injuries. And they were so careful. I was so proud of you. Were so proud of them, because you scared them. And I stood right there by the guy with the saw the entire time. That's great. Make sure where they did and didn't put their hands, because otherwise you start pushing what? Yeah, no, that's a horrible idea. Did you get the raised beds built? They did, yeah? We did great. Nobody passed out. We got them all built. Everybody coming from what before, was just cutting out fingers. Now, they passing out. Tom. What kind of group are you leading? What is happening? You turned me loose? Well, it was, it was, it was New Orleans in July, okay, yeah, context is important. We're going right through the middle of the day, yeah, started late morning, ended early afternoon, it was hot. Yeah, the kids were feeling the heat. These are, it's a gamer generation. They're not outside a whole lot. Generation that's yeah, attack that a lot. Yeah. They're not used to the lack of air conditioning. But proud of it. There's no complaining, no griping, lots of blisters, still no complaining. Well, you threaten them with cutting their fingers off. Well, and the kids on the saw, really, they weren't even talking in fear in a corner. Here's the best part. Did they do any of the work, or did you just do it? Oh no, I didn't do any of that. Okay, they did all the cutting. I never touched the tools. But the kids with the saws that I had the conversation with, they weren't even our kids. Wow, wait. Where were our kids? They were doing the working the shovels and digging out the areas and clearing the grass and running the wheelbarrows together. We're gonna place the raised beds in. Yep, okay, yeah, great. But I saw the kids that I had never met before that they were turning loose with skill saws. I'm like, not gonna happen that's rough on a gamer. If you you can't, you know, was that part of his speech? Yes, you can't play video games if you could have a finger. Jesus loves you. Open your bottle. You can't open your bottle of Coke. You know you want to eat french fries like this with your thumb. This with your thumb and pinky finger. Oh my gosh, you know? Yeah, okay, all right. Well, what got across? I only had like, two kids run the saws, and the others were holding, like, way at the end of the board. So it worked. That's really just the most Tom conversation. It's very tough. So, yeah, well, I wish there was a word to describe the the ELCA. Here is the word LCA leader there was great. He got us there, and he, and he was like, seven foot tall, and he just kind of watched everything and let everybody doing everything. And I have all his fingers. Yeah, he did. He wasn't touching the sauce. It's kind of a Ron Swanson thing. Well, I mean, it's, it's the micro works, it's the, you know, safety, safety first, versus safety second, like safety is your own responsibility, okay, yeah, it's like it's your fingers, so you're responsible for this, but your kids. So here, let's discuss this. Yeah, it was important, so we're gonna have to add an explicit label to the podcast today. Yeah, we really will. Like, there's no violence Safety Manual. Tom's Safety Manual is massive. But Tom is safety. Tom doesn't have a manual. He is the manual. That is exactly I've made dumb mistakes in my life, but I've got my fingers miraculously. So, yeah, it worked. It was interesting. It was a good time. The kids had fun. They were wore out. It was a it was a lot of mission packed into one day. Yeah, yeah. A very kind of sketchy looking neighborhood in New Orleans, yeah, so let me break out Ozark mission project, because it's a good kind of segue. Ozark mission project is along the same lines, I saw you. I saw you carry tools. Oh, yeah, five to six churches come together. We went to Fayetteville. We had five youth from our church go two adults, and then we met down there with six, seven other churches. They break out in all different groups, and all of our kids spread across all the groups, right? And so we had a home that needed a ramp, and built. So we first built a landing, which was a four by eight foot landing, and then you have six posts in that landing, which is interesting, because they put it on top of the ground. They don't actually put the post in, so it's kind of a floating ramp, yeah, although, as they rot out, yeah, exactly like concrete footings, yeah, killer concrete footings on the ground, on the ground. Yeah, it'll last a year. That's why I built. It'll get off center. It'll start. We built four by eight, landing out, and then a turn on a four by four, and then down. But the it was down into a sloping driveway that was sloping and also angled. That was nasty, yeah, super nice. So it's rough to make match. Oh, yeah. And then they dropped us some tools, which was great. And we had a double miter saw, which is awesome. And then I brought our compound miter saw, yeah, double compact, so you could do both angles right now. And then I brought ours, the DeWalt one that we have on its own stand. I looked that up, came and picked it up, and we went to plug it into the house, and it blew the breakers, yeah, so we could not use it. So it just, it's probably good every day. You know, the the tool that most causes people to go into the ER, no, I don't table saws, really, yeah, okay, I wouldn't doubt it, because at one point I tried to cut a block that was too small. Yeah, it fired that thing back at me and about 90 miles an hour, miles and marketed at me. Yeah? Most people that are missing fingers, or it's because of table saws, dang, yeah, that's no good. Yeah, they actually have them that are will sense human flesh and will, like, drop the blade out. It's a big thing now, because people, like, I know multiple people that have cut fingers off with tables Yeah, that's gonna be horrible. Well, thanks for that on the start of the podcast. Really appreciate that. Was good. So with that table, have you done any youth mission ever? No, but growing up, yes and no growing up. What we meant by mission was more like, you know, evangelism. You go out in the streets and you pray with people, and you talk to people about that, and like going out the service projects. They just called the service projects. It wasn't mission. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, that's just no interesting thing. Because I think in Christianity, there's been a moment where the lines between evangelism and proselytizing have gotten blurred, yeah? And people are afraid of going on mission for evangelism. Well, yeah, that's definitely scarier, yeah, yeah. And it says just turned into service projects, yeah, with a lot of mission, which is good too, because it's still showing the love, you know, Christian love towards our neighbor, yeah? But I think there's an area where we can bridge the gap a little bit better. Yeah, well, service is hard. It's also safe, right? Not your service. It's safe, like, because you're doing something that doesn't have really a straight relationship impact, right? But it's improved. It requires less, less preparation to prepare somebody to go do service, yeah, than it does to prepare somebody to go do evangelism. It reminds me when I took, when in college, I had to take a general elective, and I took Psych 101, or whatever, yeah, and he had this assignment, you know, and it was music school. We didn't really care about the class. Teacher knew that we didn't care. He also didn't super care, yeah, so it was just more of a Hangout, you know what I mean? And that's, you know, quality education for you. But he had this assignment for us where we just had to go and do awkward things, you know. And one of them was you have to get into an elevator and not turn around. Do you know what I mean? Like, walked in and not turn around, and then just watch people's reaction and then report, write a report about it. How many times are the cops get called? Yeah, great. There's all these little things that you had to, like, if you're out in the mall, you had to, like, get up and stand on the chair and look around and then sit back down, and then just watch people's reactions, yeah, like, just random things like that that are just abnormal behavior, you know. And see how willing are you to to to withstand being in, like, just being different. And you ever seen the experiments where people come into a waiting room and then every five minutes bell rings, yeah, share that. Yeah. Sure. What happens? Well, I'm trying to remember as I go, but like, a bell rings every five minutes, and everybody gets up for two seconds and sits back down, yeah. And then it's a waiting room, presumably for, like, a doctor's appointment kind of a thing. And then one person at a time just gets called up, yeah, and the last person there is just the person who arrived while the whole standing up after the bell thing had been happening, yeah. And then there's no one there to make that last person do it anymore. But reasoning behind, the reasoning behind, no reasoning at all. But then the bell rings, and they start looking around. They don't know, like, am I supposed to get up? Then they go and get up for a little bit, and they sit back down, you know? And he's like, all of these, like, cultural conditioning exercises that we're used to. You know, the thing about going out and doing something that's awkward, yeah, it's probably how a lot of people feel walking into a church with a very different tradition, or not growing up in church, and coming into a church, yeah, and not knowing what's going on, and wondering why, like, they're reciting this prayer, and everybody knows it, but me, like, what's you know? Because I've heard people say that, like, they've never heard of the Lord's Prayer. And, like, How does everybody know? Which is super awkward for him? Yeah, so there's a lot of that. And how do we make the church in a way, it's welcoming that people don't feel awkward because people don't want to do that. You don't want to go stand on a chair in a mall food so uncomfortable. That's probably for a lot of the people in the like the unhoused community or the homeless community, or how, you know, how you define that walking into a church with a bunch of people wearing clearly, nice, clean clothes and feeling like that person, yeah, and whether or not they feel welcomed or not. And it, it's surprising to me that the music school had that little, that little of emphasis on the psychology, because there's a huge tie between music and human psychology. I mean, there is, I don't, I don't think that was intentional. It was more they offered a psych class as a general elective, and some of us took it, yeah. But, I mean, there's a huge like, you know, if you're a performer, you have to get up in a room full of people, and you have to just perform, yeah? And while people are not watching exact expectation. What's the like? What we do here on a Sunday morning isn't the performance, but I'm gonna use this as an example, because this size room is the absolute worst, worst size room you could possibly perform it because people are standing like, three feet from you, and you can see their eyeballs, yeah, you know. And it's incredibly tuned in or not tuned in, right? Yeah, yeah. Very disconcerting, yeah. But I think, I think the mission is, like, a big part of doing these missions with with youth is precisely getting them out of that comfort zone, yeah, right, whether it's service projects or it's approaching people on the street, which I don't know how effective that really is, but, you know, I. Most of the time, it's just awkward. But, you know, sometimes, I guess it works. But you know, just just being willing to get outside of that comfort zone and be the person who breaks the awkwardness, who breaks the mold, is essentially growing in leadership. And if we're going to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Holy the Son and the Holy Spirit, somebody will need to take some leads, you know, and it's going to be important to have, like, We need leaders in the church, and so that's kind of what I think mission is doing. So two things off of that story, which one's going to be kind of a really profound narrative from like, meeting people in service projects. The other one is, I think we do get uncomfortable in service, like you said, it also like you're in, you know, New Orleans, when you were doing this, right? You're outside. It was hot. The kids are hot, right? Like, you're not at your best self. Like, when you present yourself for a service project and you fully give into it, and it's hot and you're sweating and, like, all kind of, like, it is not a place where you want to be around other people, right? And you exist in the space where you're like, okay, like, I've given up the niceties and the comfort, and I've given up kind of the perception of how I look right, and what makes me feel strong, and I've just entered fully into I'm serving right. And it doesn't all the things wash away, of the vanity and the kind of the superficial level of how we look at ourselves in our relationship with God, and you realize that there's just a humbleness to serving right. You're serving, not for the sake of yourself. And again, it was nasty, gross when we served in our garden day It sparked, well, oh man, within five minutes, drenched. I mean, absolutely drenched. And you're like, Yep, I'm just 100% in this. People are used to being comfortable. You know, dry, air controlled, humidity, controlled temperature. Yeah. And you get out of that, and it starts to turn into a Snickers commercial, oh, yeah, all day. The other part of that is, we met our lady that we're building the ramp for right, Nancy and Tracy and and Nancy was the mom. Tracy was the daughter, and she'd been caring for her mom, 24/7 and so she was just emotional about how God is. She said how God showed up in our group being there, and that was her end response again, like God showed up, God showed up. And it was really neat to see. And then we just got a message from her that that she has gone through, you know, a year of transformation with her mom and different things like that, but she wants to be baptized. And she reached out to us the neighborhood, and she said, I really would like to be baptized the neighborhood church, right, so that, in response to the service project we did down there. And so coming up in August, we're going to baptize Tracy right from behalf of the Ozark mission project, which is going to be super cool. Super cool. So I think there's a great relationship of you know how important it is that we do meet people on the street and like, what ends up and it this is not a common story, right? But it is a story that comes from something like this on mission where, like, hey, that that had an impact, and it was unexpected. I don't know if they knew what they were expecting out of this. I knew she only came to Ozark mission project, like, a week before in order to understand to understand the right message. So this was unexpected for her. It was unexpected for us. And yet, through all this, God is moving in an incredible way. So let's break into some scripture. Talk about Matthew, chapter 25 verses 31, through 40. And it's interesting because this text is used in a large way to understand how we embrace strangers around us and how we care for the people around us, as Jesus would have commanded us to care. But the title of the section is the judgment of nations, the judgment of the nations, which is really interesting to think about how the first part of the text, which you're going to hear Roseanne read, really talks about the difference in people between the nations and how they were understanding those differences between each other. And then it leads into, how do we care for people coming from different circumstances, which we're going to talk about that in a second also. So it's Matthew chapter 25 verses 31 through 40. And Roseanne, why don't you kick us off into some scripture? Alright? Verse 31 when the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him. Then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate people, one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the King will come and say to those at his right hand, come you that are blessed by my father inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me. Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food or thirsty and gave you something to drink, and when was it we saw you a stranger and welcomed you or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you? And the King will answer them truly. I tell you, just as you did to just as you did it to one of these, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me. Table, you had one verse. Table, one verse. You had one had one job. I couldn't let it go. He had one job do it. He couldn't do it. My gosh. What? On it to be fair, the sentence structure is not modern English, yeah, that was really hard. Sentence is a really hard Bible verse, yeah, yeah. So before we get into this, it's interesting that really, you have this judgment of nations, you have kind of understanding the different people groups that are going on in Jesus's ministry, right? And what's happening with how they understand these this pagan identity that's going on the sheep and the goats and separating, but then also how we deal with people in society and what it means to welcome people. And as you can see in the structure, the disciples and the people around Jesus are having trouble understanding what he's talking about, right? Because he was saying, if you've done it to the least of these, which is that final statement, because they said, when did we see you like, when did we see you in the space? And did this for you? And it goes through clothing, and it goes through food, and it goes through prison, and it goes through all these different times. It goes through being sick, which are things that we deal with a lot, right, with the people around us, but they're usually in relationships that we already have structured. And this is talking about the people that are the least of these. So it's not the family members of you, it's not the Friends of you, it's not the church members of you. It's the least of these. And so our spark dwelling mission really dealt with the least of these from the perspective of the housing insecure those who were living on the streets insecure of their housing. And this is the difference between homeless, right, and housing. So homeless is a term that, as we described on Sunday during the message, that really describes coming from a place of having a home, and that could be an emotional home, right, where you feel connected, as this is my home. It could represent a house, but usually it's more emotionally tied. But for a lot of the housing insecure. That home could be a place where they feel at home, at a place like the dwelling, which is where we worshiped, and that's their home church community, so they're not homeless, right? The home could be where they live on the streets with the people that are out with them, and they have a home with those who are in their environments. So they're not necessarily a homeless from an emotional standpoint, or even a connection standpoint, but they are housing insecure. And housing insecure is much like we talk about food insecurity. It doesn't mean that sometimes shelter isn't accessible. It doesn't mean that sometimes they don't have a house. What it means is that there's an insecurity there into a prolonged time of having a sustained house, a current address, right? Is usually a big and major issue, but it's housing insecure. We don't know what the result will be at the end of the day, if this will be a reality that we live into or not. And so there's a lot of ways that they kind of are sensitive to that language with could be triggering to the population that is housing secure in Winston Salem, so just as we get into that, have we, or any of you had any experiences with those who are housing insecure because it was so specifically our mission as we went into Winston Salem so what has been some experiences with housing insecure people? In my last career, I dealt with with a lot of people that would fall into that category. A lot of them had homes that were, you know, tent you know, tents encampments. You know, group encampments, the little eyes, little kind of we called tent cities in certain places. But honestly, all the ones I dealt with in law enforcement were usually ones that either had an addiction issue or a mental health issue, because those are the ones that people called the police on that didn't know what to do, that we dealt with. There are plenty others I know that are out there that I never dealt with because they weren't doing anything to cause, you know, feeling of concern in the community. But almost all of them that I dealt with were, there was mental illness or an addiction issue or both, right? And it happened fairly often, and some of them were kind of heartbreaking cases, because a few instances I got pretty mad, because some of them were, you know, voluntarily unhoused. You know, they've moved away from, from help, and in some cases, they had had kids, and we had to, we've had to take kids away from, away from a few because a kid didn't need to grow up in that environment. And a lot of them are genuinely because the mental health aspect, fearful of the housing opportunities, the shelters, authority figures. You know, there's stuff that is real in their mind, that's that's not really real that that causes them a lot of fear. And so really it's like, kind of like, maybe like living suddenly waking up one day, and you're living in a Stephen King movie or something, and it's hard to get them, them help, but it's a specific niche of the population that I dealt with, because it's just the folks that people saw them, and they didn't know what they're doing. They called 911, and then I got to deal with them. Yeah. Now, what was you said there was a fear in this population right over housing, right? And sometimes embracing those, yeah, you say more about that. So a lot of them, we try to set them up with shelters or family members and with ones of the mental health issue. And sometimes, I think it came from from drug abuse. They were afraid of, like there, and there must have been like, a network of them, because I had multiple people talking about the fear of, like an infection of reptilian DNA on the Government and Authorities and and so in their mind, like there are, there are people out there that were a threat that they were trying to stay away away from, yeah, and so they were fearful of going to a shelter or even staying with family members. Because of the mental illness that caused them a lot of anxiety and fear of stuff that they didn't really need to be afraid of, and they were kind of running from that, and that seemed to be a heavy, you know, a heavy influence on a lot of them as to why they chose to live that way. Because it was, it was a fear response. It was something that wasn't real, but in their mind, it was and just kind of heartbreaking, because you know you can't force them to get help. Well, there's not a logical response to that. There's not a logical response. So there's no way for me to logically find a way to try to help them, because they don't, they don't want help. And the legal system, you can't force them to get psychiatric help unless they're a threat to themselves or others. Yeah. And so a lot of family members we deal with, a lot of family members calling, trying to find a way to help their loved one. But we, I mean, we couldn't force them, force them to do it. And so it was kind of, there wasn't really anything we could, we could do, but the other side that made it difficult, as a lot of them would act out in ways that society, all they need to do, knew how to do was call the police. And so we'd get there, and sometimes they'd have that fear reaction from us, and they'd start doing things that forced us to to take them into custody. Well, when you get taken into custody, there you get arrested. There's you get an arraignment within 48 hours, and there's a bond hearing, and they decide, You know what, what to do with the person. Then part of the bond hearing decision is you go through and look at ties of the community, like, are they a flight risk, right? You know? So if you, if you have, you have a home and the community, job, in the community of loved ones, in the community, you're less likely to disappear. Well, when you're you have no address, you have no identification documents. There's no way to know that they're going to show up, correct. And if they don't show up, we have no way of knowing where to go get them for court correct. And a lot of them wind up, you know, in the jails. You know, it's not as much now, because there's so little space, they're reserving more of the space for the felonies, which they were usually not, you know, not committing the felonies, but it does affect bond hearing decisions, yeah, stuff like that, because we have no idea where to go get them if they don't show up for court. And so there's all kinds of consequences to that. Trying to apply for a job and their clothes are dirty. They don't have a place to take a bath. They don't have ID to fill out a w4 you know, there's just, it's just compounding consequences for somebody that is difficult to build a help, yeah, I agree. You know, in thinking through kind of like, the documentation and different things that are needed, we saw a lot of that in Winston Salem right there, they didn't have a permanent address, so they needed to use the church as a permanent address, and the church had an address to give them that would only be mailed for those who are housing insecure. So that's a good idea, and they could get but then they would use the pastor as like, the point of reference or the contact, right? And so they had this so, but it's an interesting reality, because then you get all the local need organizations understanding that this is not an a real address for them. This is a church, right? And the church handles the address for many different people. So then it becomes a consideration of, how does that impact the weight of their application for services? And everything's like that, knowing that it's not a true, real address. It's not a place that they can come find them if they need to talk with them. It's a place where they're just having mail sent right in order to be a part of in a community there. And so yeah, we learned a lot about those insecurities and some of the troubles that it is to even seek services when you don't have the necessary documents and paperwork and everything else like that too. So it's, I mean, it's hard enough to go do that stuff when you do have everything you need. Yeah, I still get it wrong, you know, yeah, many times I've been to the DMV and not had the information going there fully prepared. Yeah, and I've gone kind of once had to leave to get something else, to get back just to find out it didn't actually need that my entire day. Yeah. Yeah. It could be. It could be, especially if you are dealing with anxiety issues or some borderline personality issues, mental health issues, or just the shame of the circumstances you found yourself in, and now you're in this group with all these other people, and you're trying to figure this out. I mean, that could be, that's a barrier for a lot of, especially the younger generation. I know a lot of, a lot of, I don't know what, what generation they'd be called, the early 20s, that kind of came out after COVID, and they're really reluctant to go sit in those spaces like that and try to do that stuff. They want to do it all online. And so it's an intimidating situation to try to try to sit through. If you don't have an advocate or somebody to help you, Yeah, correct. Help navigate that with you. Tim, what about you? David, experience with any housing insecure or anything else? I have some you know, just working at church, if you're hanging out outside, we're close to the Salvation Army, within walking distance, and that's obviously where people find shelter for the night and and so people come roaming in here often, or just hang out outside, and we find ourselves talking from time to time, and I did, I did have one occasion, I think it was, it was a couple years ago when it had snowed a lot, and I had a practice on Thursday, And we our parking lot was just covered in snow, yeah, you know, was just totally covered. And like, well, how are people gonna get in this parking lot? Somebody's got a shovel, yeah, you know. So I grab a shovel, and there I am, shoveling snow, you know, all the way to the other duties as a sign, other duties as a sign, you know, the whole driveway. And I'm just trying. To make, like, one track for one tire, you know, because otherwise I want to be there for four hours shoveling things, and I'm just, like, just one track, just so our car can get in to the, you know, to close to the door and stuff like that. So I'm shoveling that. And then this guy comes in, and I'm like, oh, man, here we go, you know, like, comes into the churches, yeah, he's just walking around. And she's like, he's hanging out by the tree, you know, over there, and he sees me out, and then he starts walking. I'm like, okay, like, it's, you know, it's usually going to be an exercise, right? Like, it's going to be a little thing, so Okay. And he's like, Hey, man, you know, I can help you, you know? I'm like, Okay, sure. And we just got to talking, and he's like, I have a son in Fayetteville. I used to work construction, but now, you know, now I don't have a home or whatever, and I just keep asking him questions about his life and stuff like that. And he says he's, you know, he's trying to, he's trying to get to Oklahoma where they have, like, a program for rehabilitation, you know, stuff like that, where they give him some experience and he can get a job after it, and stuff like that. And I'm like, it's always tough, because the situations why people find themselves in, like living on the streets, are so varied. Oh yeah, you never know to get there, yeah. You never know, like, how true it is, like, how true their story is. You never know you had. You have to take it for what it is and just ask more questions and keep asking. And he seemed, you know, relatively legit and but ultimately, like, you know, sometimes people say, like, I won't give them money because they're just gonna buy drugs, you know. And that's like, well, that's not your business. Yeah, right. Like, when you give, it's not about what they're gonna do with it, you know. Yeah, exactly. Are you willing to give someone who's in need, you know? And so anyway, I've just kept asking him questions, and we talked and, you know, and he never asked for money. Yeah? I was like, Okay, well, that's yeah, that was interesting, yeah. And, and then at the end of it, he finally did see, hey, is there some money you can, you can give me? After I was like, Yeah. Then I looked in my wallet, and I was looking for a fiver, and, you know, and I looked in there, and I'm like, the big bills, the hundreds, all I had was 50. Oh, 50. And I was like, oh man, oh my god. What is your faith? $50 See, my faith said, Whatever you did to the list, least of the you know, you did to me, yeah. And then my faith always also said, Well, there's a whole bunch more snow that needs traveling. So let's get let's employ this individual for the next hour, you know. So I said, Hey, okay, if you like, if you finish that all the way to the driveway, then, you know, then I'll give you some money. And you're like, okay, and then, and I went with him, you know. And he was like, Are you serious, like, all the way over there? I'm like, Yeah, we're gonna do it all the way over there, yeah. And he, you know, he you know, he told me a bunch of stories or whatever, and then he told me he, he wrote a song once for his mom. He lots of complicated relationship, yeah, with family, right? Wrote a song to his mom, and that he would, he was gonna come back, and he would give me the lyrics to see if I could turn it into a music. I was like, okay, yeah, do it. And so then he went away. It gave him the 50. It was all good, yeah. And then he did show up on Sunday. Oh, wow. He showed up. That's great. He waited after service was over, and he came up with a little piece of paper, and he gave me the lyrics. That's great. That's awesome. And I, you know, it wasn't, you know, I haven't written the song. I still would like to, yeah, but, but he did. He did show up. And I don't know how we found each other on Facebook. We're Facebook friends. And sure enough, he did go to the place in Oklahoma. He did do his construction, he did get a job, he got a little apartment, wow. And he's kind of back on his feet, but he's insecure. I've seen some posters like, I'm gonna be without homes, yeah? But then he's back on his feet, and he's kind of on and off, you know, huh? That's, that's a great story, right? That's, and it just, there's a point that comes through this, right, that, I mean, even the interaction, when you see them walking over, right, and you see this person that you don't recognize and you don't know, and it's not a relationship, or maybe not comfortable with, still walking over, you're like, okay, and I think you said it in the right way. We're in it. Like, yeah, that's who we are. And as people that are staff at a church, right? Especially in my reality, like, I know it's part of my reality. Like, someone's walking great, you know, and I'm excited to meet you. Like, that's wonderful. I try to treat it the same I would meet anybody, which is wonderful. It's not safe for everybody, nor do people feel safe in it. But I've had the same interactions, right? Like, I've had one young buck, come in, tell me his whole life story. Caught an addiction, wants to get out of addiction, is trying to stay clean, just a couple days clean. And he's like, I need somebody. I said, Great, I need a barn cleaned. And he's like, all right? And I said, Great, you work four hours, you know, six hours, eight hours, I'll toss you 20 bucks an hour. And he's like, done, man. He hard worker. And I was like, that was great, right? I've had people. Can I sleep out back right before we built the other buildings, right? Can I throw up a tent? And I was like, Yeah, you can throw up a tent. I was like, but you can stay for a night, you know, like, but throw it up. And here we go, right? So there's been a lot of different directions. I've walked in on someone that found our way into the church on, oh yeah, oh man, that was a moment they found their way into the church on a Saturday night, coming into Sunday morning and decided to use the green room eat the food, and in decided it was a great place for their dog, their 85 pound Rottweiler dog, to be in the church also. And that was a surprise as and I do love this story, because before the church program was that was before the kids were, yeah, and I walked into the church on a Sunday morning, early. Thank God. And and it was really early, so it was like 5am and I walk in, and as I'm walking in, he's walking out of the restroom, and he looks at me, and he goes, who are you guys? What? Who are you the pastor? And it was great. And we got to meet each other. And then he got arrested later in the day for breaking and entering in another facility. So, so you know what that's that's the way that happens. A lot of getting to that, yeah, because a lot of damage gets done sometimes, yeah. And now our name, but our fault. He didn't break and enter. Yeah, our doors were left open. So like, Let's go miss on our security and say, that's why it's not breaking and entering. It's breaking or entering. Oh, what is it not breaking and breaking or you don't have to break. You just have to enter. And so if, if you, if you enter with the intent of committing a crime punishable by imprisonment, it's a felony, otherwise it's a misdemeanor, but it's still a crime to even if it's just so is it pastor of care or education, or is it care and education, and now it's the education as to the Arkansas State law. Because, yeah, so, yeah, that was, that was a, what he did was a misdemeanor crime. But it's like, you know, do you decide to prosecute? Okay? But yeah, people like that. They because their understanding of cultural norms is different, because they exist in a different culture that that has different values and expectations, and they just exist in that. And so that's just to them. It's like, well, you you know, when you're when you're desperate for for shelter and for basic needs that most people aren't, there's different weights on things. And if something's available and you can use it, you use it. And that's just walk around and start every door in the whole facility, yeah. So they found an open and they, there's so many that do that at night and just go look ever and sometimes it's cars, sometimes it's buildings, it's we, you know, wherever, wherever they can get. And a lot of people are like, I would never do that. Well, never been that position. Yeah, exactly. You don't know exactly. Yeah, I had had another experience once where this lady walks in and she's asking for help, and I start asking what her story is, and she said she had, she had been driving from Ohio, and she needed to get back home to around Phoenix, where she lived. I'm like, What are you doing? Drag driving all this way. Like, does that even make sense? She said she ended up here because her car had some kind of breakdown, and she used the rest of her money to fix the tire, I think, by the tire or whatever, and she didn't have any gas or whatever. It was just kind of a common story. And so, like, typically, like, okay, the gas story, okay, yeah, you know, I'm gonna take that for what it is. But then started looking inside of her car, and it does look like she's been traveling, and she says, Yeah, you know, like it's my son passed away in Ohio, and they called me. We were estranged for a while, and they called me and they had his ashes, and the only way I had to go get his ashes was to drive. I'm like, Okay, that sounds believable. Yeah, that sounds a very specific story. And she pointed at the box, like, those are his ashes. Oh, my gosh. Oh boy, that's Yeah. And she's like, Yeah, I went to get his ashes, and I'm going to scatter them around here, because we vacationed here once, and that's where I'm going to scatter his ashes, and then I'm going to continue driving home. But also I have a condition, and the doctors only gave me six months left to live, and then, oh, my god, she showed me, like, whatever thing she had plugged into her, yeah, medical device. And I have, you know, I have no one left, and my family's all gone, and so I'm alone and and I'm not going to be around for much longer. I'm just trying to get back home to get my affairs in order, and just wait until I go. And then we hugged, and then we cried, yeah. And then I went to the gas station. I bought her$50 worth of gas. $50 is your I filled up her tank, and I got another gift card with gas for her, and just I got her email and and sent her on her way, yeah, and that's and the question I asked Emily Harkins when she was here is, how do you go home, you know, because you you know that people are going to be sleeping in the cold. Yeah, they come. They spend time with you. You do the thing with them, and but then they go back into the street. And how do you live? Yeah. Know? And her answer was, like, I I just had, there's nothing I can do. I just, every day I get out of the church and I pray and I surrender, yeah, and then I go home, yeah, show back up the next day. There's been kind of more times, yeah, there's been more times than I've prayed at this gas station down here that people have asked for. I mean, yeah, every time I give a gas card out, you know, we help one time to get from point A to point B, as long as you have a plan right, to continue that path and make sure that there's plan at the end of that, we'll help with gas one time, right? And make sure that you can get on your way. I'll go down, but as I hand him a gasket, Hey, can I pray with you? And I've had 90% yeses, I've had some hard nos. I've had some I'm not going to pray, but you can, you know, like, hey, great, we're in but those small interactions, right? You can just see someone present, right, in a relationship, listening to a story, right? And caring about the story, right? Is, is almost always the interaction. And largely, when people come to you from Salvation Army, there's not a request for money, right? They're coming for relationship. They're coming. Just want to be seen and heard, and that's it. And so welcome. It's much more rare that I get asked or, Hey, can I get a shower? Can I get, you know, Can I can I give me a hotel room? Or I need this food? I'm like, great, we got a free pantry. Come on, I'll get you some food, right? And we have the resources to give them. But it's rare now that I get asked for help. It's usually someone who's passing through that got stopped, right? And it was like, Hey, I'm just going to go to every church and see what's going to happen, right? It's a hard part when the the scammers out there that prey on that stuff that make people hesitant to do that? Yeah? And like a lot of the panhandlers, yeah, I'd be sitting intersections working traffic, and you see the guy drive up in a nice car and then nice clothes and put on the crappy over clothes and get his sign and go sit out an intersection. I'm like, Dude, you drove up here in a Cadillac, and I know where you live. He's like, Yeah, but I make a ton of tax free money, buddy. No special place for you, yeah, you know, but it makes people hesitant to want to help. And you gotta have boundaries, you know, because some things help people, and sometimes things could enable people, depending on what you got, to learn their story. But there, if you think about it, you know, most people, like most of us, are probably have some money in savings. We're getting a regular paycheck, you know, we have a plan. We're set up. But imagine if you if you grew up different, and you didn't have that set up, and you started your life on the edge all the time, yeah, and then there's so many things that could happen outside of our control that could put us in that position, you know, like, just a scam, a bank account issue, something like that, where you get on the edge and imagine being somewhere that you don't know anybody, and then one little thing happens, and you could very easily find yourself like at the you know, where your only helps could come from from a stranger, or from a from a church, very easily. If I mean, even just you're traveling somewhere, your car breaks down for some reason, a scam thing. All your credit cards are locked down, yeah, your cell phone isn't working, and you have no money in your bank account, no cash in your wallet, and then you're just stuck. Well, if you can't get your car fixed, and you can't call anybody, and then you're just that's where you're at. It could happen to you know, worst possible scenario, it could happen to us, but we do things in our life to make sure that those things don't happen, but we have resources to do that. If you don't have the resources, or you haven't learned the life skills, or there are things in the way to keep you from doing that. I mean, that stuff could happen fairly easily to people, absolutely. So interestingly, Roseanne, you got to listen to the message of testimony from those going on the mission trip, right? To spark dwell this last week, right? And so we have a little segment that we love to call Roseanne. And Roseanne, can you share with us what your notes are from Sunday listening to the message and testimony? Well, I made a note about the two different types of mission that you talked about. Oh, great, yes. One was service, yep, where you perform a service. And the other one was relationship, where you create relationships. And I thought that was interesting. So my mission experience is going to Cambodia. Oh, yeah, and that was really a relationship mission. We just needed to see what their needs were and how we could serve them. But we met so many people, and they wanted their story heard. Yeah, just like you said, so and I loved when Tracy, I think it's Tracy said she quoted Isaiah, and she was talking about, oh, lost it. She was just talking about her experiences. And I've had experience with housing insecure people. A few years ago, I learned of a childhood friend who was recovering from emergency surgery in a hotel room, oh jeez, because she had nowhere to go, even though she had children in the area. Yeah, they didn't. They didn't want her drama, right? So I offered for her to come stay with us while she recovered. And she was with us for about three months, and then she went on her way. Yeah, yeah. And then recently, my older sister, who has no ID, yeah, okay, no social security card. Apparently, her wallet got stolen, and she had all of her identification in there. And then Oklahoma does this weird thing where, but they say it's more secure, where you get your a paper ID, and then within 10 to 20 days, you get a plastic ID. So interesting, central place, yeah, and that actually is supposed to be more secure, but she never got her plastic ID. And so that's interesting. She is kind of that person, non grata or whatever out there. She so she's starting that journey to get her social security card replaced and and in talking to her, it's why didn't you do this? And she said, because I was in survival mode. Yeah, right. I didn't care. I had a job. I didn't have a place to stay. My roommate and I were staying at a hotel, and I said, but all your money went to whatever? Yeah, it didn't seem like you were taking care of things. And she said, I was surviving. That's it. That's it. Yeah, right. All the other needs go out the window. Base needs are the only thing that comes into play. And it was some place to sleep that was relatively safe, something to eat that was relatively nutritious, and a way to get back and forth to her job. That's right, that was it. How easy is it? Have you found it to get the new documentation? It is not easy. It's not and that's with access and with transportation and with all these means, yes. So she thought the easiest way for her to get an Arkansas ID would be to get a license go take the test. So she did the test, the pre test online, scored well on him. Did not realize that she needed another form of ID. Oh, yeah, absolutely to take the test. So she had her birth certificate, that was it, okay, but she needed her social security card so she couldn't take the test. So that was a long trip to Prairie Grove. So then the tester said, why don't you go to the DMV and get an ID? We still need two forms of ID for that you're working in. So yeah, about 100 miles later, we went home, she was upset. I well, and during that the air conditioning had gone out on my car. So what's up with air conditioning? Table? Didn't your air conditioning go out, of course, because it's summer, because you need it, right? That's great. And you have a baby at home, it's really good. Your air conditioning went out in the car, in the car, Tom, didn't your air conditioning go out two years ago? Like a year ago? Yeah, into last year, oh my gosh. When this I had had a complete overhaul back in the fall, when so it cooled off, and then it got real hot again, and my I saw I turned my air conditioner off, turned it back on when it got hot, and it was not, oh, no good. So we did a complete overhaul, which was expensive, and that failed, and that's what failed this time. Yeah, so luckily there was, thank God, thank you. God, no cost to that replacement. But yeah, so the air conditioning went out, so I'm frustrated. She's frustrated. But the hope continues. Yeah, like the hope and the faith that what we're learning from this experience is maybe that you can't, you shouldn't let go of some of those things, like, when her, her my wallet got stolen three days before I left for Cambodia. Oh, oh. So the next day I was at the DMV. I got getting my license replaced, and it was close enough to renewing it that she goes, we're just going to renew it. Oh, great. So got that, got a replacement for everything else. The only thing I didn't have was my credit cards. Okay? So that was kind of uncomfortable in that there were places that only took cars, yes? So, yeah, I experienced some of that. But then you, you. Yeah, so I sat my sister down when, when she first got there, and both my sisters are really housing insecure because I'm providing the roof over. This is true. Yeah, this is true. So we sit down and we made a plan, okay, you need to do these things for your identification. Then if you want a job, you can apply for that when you take care of all of this. Yeah, so now she has an appointment for to get her social security card. Yeah, that's great. I mean, this is what we experienced in Spark dwell, is they gave all of the teams different actions to go back into Winston Salem to find substance, you know, abuse facilities, to make sure that we had housing, to find transportation to go out and, you know, meet the needs of any kind of community need that would be out there in the housing insecure community and and all of us failed. We failed because we didn't have the right identification, we didn't have the enough time. We couldn't get to the place that we needed to get to when we got there, it wasn't for we didn't qualify for the services, even though we had the need for the services, right? And so and as we were walking with those who were housing insecure and even our our person's name was Conte Conti was awesome, but he was super frustrated living in that community about the services provided, but had no other access to any other services, right? And wasn't going anywhere different. So there's a reality in there. Exactly what you're experiencing is that it's people that we know, it's people that are from the Salvation Army, it's people that are in our community. But there's a story behind every one of these people. And that was one of the most, I think, things that hit Tracy and myself while we there, is that one of the first people that we met told our whole group, and she just said, if I hadn't run away when I was 15, if I hadn't run away when I was 15, and this lady was probably 55 at this point, 60, she goes, if I hadn't run away when I was 15, my life wouldn't be like this. And you're just looking at it on a trip with 15 year olds, and as parents of 15 year olds, and Tracy and I are looking at each other, we're like, Oh my gosh. Like, this was a choice made so many years ago that led down. And it maybe wasn't that one choice, but it was the series of actions from that right, and it was the hardship that came from it. And also, there's a shame from some of it right that wasn't addressed. And right, there's some things. And then what was the family structure? But the only way to discover that is to be in relationship. The only way to discover that is to make a connection and value that connection not because of ourselves. It's not necessarily a friend that we would have like table your story was amazing, because that relationship continues, and you have this relationship to look back on. But it might not be that, but it might be for God to work something through, and if it's beyond ourselves, I think it's something we need to embrace. I think that's the beautiful thing about the the free, what they call the freedom of a Christian, and that we don't have to focus our efforts on our salvation. That's a free gift given to us, and the commandment we have is to love our neighbor. And this the the lectionary reading coming up for this Sunday is the story of the Good Samaritan. Oh, nice. You're right. And so everybody, at times, needs somebody to lean on for support. Most the time. We get that through our friends. But if you're a friend group and your societal group has no resources, yeah, it because a lot of those folks will give their very last dollar, last dollar away, yeah, whereas most people have a lot of money, don't want to give any dollars away a lot of times. And so if you if you have a group of people, you friends, you can lean on when you need help for things, then we can help hold each other up. But if you don't have that, it's hard to get out of that. You know that that that rut, but as a Christian, knowing that we don't have to work for salvation, but all we've been asked to do in response to the gift we've been given is to love our neighbors the way Christ Jesus has loved us, and that that that mission of the church to care for the needs for those around us in that gives opportunities for evangelism. It also gives opportunities for the Christians to go out and care for the people around them, to walk with them as advocates, to help them with things like getting you know ID, talking to them, sharing their story, let them feel like a human being in a relationship with a normal person, and to just be able to show some Christian kindness and help people get out of those, out of those ruts. I mean, that's the point of, you know, God doesn't need our works. There's nothing we can do for God, right? That's why God asked us to give our works to those around us. Yeah, and that's where we can we can benefit each other. It's not going to give us salvation, but it's, it's the only closest way we can come to thanking God outside of of giving thanks to God through prayer is for loving God's children around us. Absolutely, there's a huge opportunity in that I can 100% say that in my situation with my sisters, that it, you know, I joke about it. I tell the women's group, y'all are my therapy on this. But really, truly, it is God's provision. I am not doing anything. It is all God's provision, and they're being taken care of. And I can see that my older sister, who is very withdrawn and. And inside of herself and not secure, is now blossoming. I mean, she's caring. She's doing self care. She gets dressed every day, she helps around the house. She feels like she's contributing. And it's so it's it's a blessing to see that progression for her. And I think that's the one takeaway you named it Tom from sparked, well, right? As we look at this, this is a church, and it's a church for the housing insecure. And the one thing we can all say walking away from being a part of that church service is that there is faith in the midst of being in the wilderness daily, right? Not having the security of the things that we would call comfortable, right? And maybe not even think about, there is faith, and I think that's what transformed a lot of the youth, is that, like they have nothing, like we're walking with them on the streets where they said they slept here last night, and they're like, but they had joy on Sunday, and like, they have faith, and they say they're a Christian, and we're like, yeah, like, that's what guides them through, right? And they find community there, which is really important. And so, so it's been profound, right? It's been profound to kind of think through mission. We did change our series, to think through, like, what was happening in Texas as we're praying over Texas and the camps that are there coming back from Camp. My heart is still breaking. I mean, I was talking to Jess, Jess and I went on a date last night. Can I say that out loud? We went on a date and it was glorious. Went out for like three hours and just ate and enjoyed conversation, and walked downtown Bentonville for like 45 minutes and just had a wonderful time. But we were talking about just how heartbreaking it is what's going on and just the wrestling that we have as parents with what's happening. And so this series is called Mountain movers, and it's learning to trust God on the mountain and in the valley, and that's we're gonna be walking through for the next four weeks. Is, how do you trust God in the, I would say, in the juxtaposition of the times when you feel great with God. And how do you have faith when you're housing insecure, right? And how do you have faith when the mountains ahead of you, right? And you're, you're looking at that from a deep, deep, deep valley. And so it's definitely a series that's going to move us into learning to trust God in all areas of our life. Great time to read job. Oh, man, job, rough, yeah, actually, we had some people in the housing and security community talk about job when we were there, like, if you read job, I was like, yeah, they're like, That guy everything. I was like, Okay, so, I mean, even they're looking at it going, dang, you know, yeah, jobs, rub. So if you want a good read, just pick it up tonight. Read Joe, right? Job's great. So I want to cry yourself to sleep, if you want to cry yourself to sleep, and then trust God again, right in that moment. So, but that's it. So join us on Sunday as we continue the mountain mover series, as we look forward to next week, And all God's people said, Amen.