Beyond Sunday...the church goes outside in the cold.

In this week's TNC Podcast, Pastor Joe Liles, Tom Helmich, and Roseanne dive into a heartfelt discussion on generosity, community, and living out faith. Celebrating the birth of Tevo's daughter Hope, the team explores the meaning of Christian kindness through personal stories and a deep dive into Second Corinthians.

Highlights include Tom's spontaneous act of community support at St. Luke's, Roseanne's reflections on her faith journey, and Pastor Joe's insights into the true meaning of the gospel. The episode unpacks what it means to 'sow bountifully' - from shoveling snow for a neighbor to supporting those in need.

Some quotes from the podcasts...

• On Community and Church: "Church is not a building or an institution. Church is the community, it's the body of Christ."
• On Generosity: "If you sow bountifully, you will reap bountifully. If you trust me, I will supply every need."
• On Faith and Obedience: "The gospel is not about miracles or starting churches. The gospel is about forgiveness, restoring your relationship with God, and the promise of eternity."
• On Change and Growth: "Change church is about discovering who we are every time someone new walks in. We are in a constant state of discovery."
• On Confession and Humility "The hardest part is not just submitting to grace, but actually confessing our own sins. We're quick to point out others' sins, but slow to acknowledge our own."
• On Kindness: "One kind act is beautiful, but if it doesn't have a connection to a personal relationship with Jesus, it's not the full Christian life."

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introductions
• 6:52 Next Step Sunday Preview
• 15:10 Acts of Kindness
• 25:40 Biblical Deep Dive - Second Corinthians
• 40:16 Personal Faith Journeys
• 49:15 Change Church Vision
• 54:44 Closing Thoughts and Next Steps

Transcript

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:02

Welcome to the TNC podcast. We are recorded in studio on this wonderful day, and actually we're recording on a different day for a couple different reasons, but I want to introduce to you who we have in our studio, aka our worship center in our studio today, our podcast studio, one day, one day. We can have one day, one day podcast studio. But with that, to my right, we have the one, the only an intern here started off in kid city as a volunteer 10 years in the making. It is freckles.

Tom Helmich: 0:32

Tom freckles. Freckles is great, yeah, about almost 12 years. You're 12 years now. Wow. It was one year after you planted the church that's beautiful. We were here about a year before we actually chartered, so I remember signing the door. So, oh yeah, long time. Yeah, not technically an intern anymore. Now just a volunteer. Yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 0:48

you're really back. I mean, you're not now, in the last semester of your school and you finished internship, you actually got approved for an internship, right?

Tom Helmich: 0:54

I got, I did the approval with my candidacy committee. I'm still waiting for the faculty approval, okay, but my faculty advisor, who's on my, my candidacy committee, he's on that committee. Yep, he's he didn't even come to the candidacy interviews for the approval. He's like, it's been here seven years. There's an issue we'd know by now. I'm not even going just put a proof on

Pastor Joe Liles: 1:18

everything we know by now. Yeah, we'd know by now. Well, a good job for the church of seeing something that's a reality and embracing it, because that does alright. So last semester, last night, ready to go getting ordained on May 21

Tom Helmich: 1:29

may 21 may 21 ordination Wednesday, warehouse youth group.

Pastor Joe Liles: 1:33

That's great at the youth group, that's fantastic. And to my left, we have the new Director of Operations now six, seven weeks into your role. So not new anymore. Not new now. You're just a staff member, just just the staff member, right? And it is Roseanne. Roseanne, it's great to see you now, before I forget, which I typically do, we're gonna do a jingle right away.

Tom Helmich: 1:55

Yeah, I always forget the jingle. I always, can always remember, like, halfway through, and then

Pastor Joe Liles: 2:00

you don't say anything. And I don't know why you don't say anything, because we'll do the jingle at any point, but we're gonna start it right now. You guys ready? Oh, one, a, 24790, it's so sad without table for a second. So I'll get back to

Tom Helmich: 2:11

the jingle. Jingle. It doesn't have the same jingle effect. That's right.

Pastor Joe Liles: 2:16

That's right. Okay. Now, mind you, I'm now realizing too that now that I'm talking, I worked out this morning, and then I ran five miles in the cold, and my breath work right now is hurting. It's like your voice is messed up. Well, it still feels like I like I'm outside. It was so cold, yeah, and I was working out, and then I was working out. Outside got really warm, and then I went running, and I was just running low and slow, easy pace, right? And all that cold air, hands got cold, my hair got cold, like my voice got but and

Tom Helmich: 2:43

when the air is cold, it's really super dry. It's

Pastor Joe Liles: 2:45

super dry, super dry. So if you hear me coughing, I apologize, but it's because I was outside working hard for the Lord. Right to me, but let's talk about table. Tables, not your table. Always sings the first part of the jingle. I got nervous when I started singing it, and because I was alone, and then I felt really good, people were watching me. And so I was like, this is a moment. But tables not here, and that's because there's something special that happened. This is, we're recording this on a Monday, right, to go out this week Sunday. Table was not at worship, right? Because we gotta call on Saturday that Kara and table, Kara's day was wide. Went to the hospital to have their baby girl and so and it was a journey in the hospital, right? Never easy, right? Because that is always a journey. And but things were going and progressing slowly. And then we got a message last night at 10 o'clock on Sunday, that would be the 23rd February. 23 which is about two weeks early, and she was due on March 5. Right that baby hope. Baby hope was brought into this world full head of hair in an amazing way. And she has a full head of hair, beautiful. I think it's tables hair that's definitely it's just that dark hair just flowing and and five pounds, seven ounces, which is beautiful. 18 and three, four cinches. So beautiful, healthy baby and Mama, baby and table are doing good. They're doing good exhausted. They are, I'm sure, right, sure. And they are welcoming in new life and being a family. And it's beautiful. So today we're without table and and that means that we now start our new journey. Table has eight weeks of paternity leave, carats, 13, which is really incredible. That's awesome, yeah. And so they're gonna be family man. They're just gonna be doing some wonderful time at home, just discovering this new reality. And so later today, I fly to LA to pick up Tyra, and we're gonna drive back from LA. Tyra's gonna be here for eight weeks as a worship leader. Worship director in residence is what we're going to call that, right? So she just basically being here with us to lead worship, which is going

Tom Helmich: 4:45

to be like interim, but in residence has a better in residency.

Pastor Joe Liles: 4:47

Yeah, artists have residencies. I don't know. What is a better way to say it? I don't know. I think that's perfect. With that being said. We're going to go back to the jingle

Tom Helmich: 4:57

and just know that I can't pull up, pull that slot table. Slack for you. You can't. No,

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:01

you that, and I looked at you to lead with me, and you didn't go. That's why I stopped. That is not a

Tom Helmich: 5:06

gift that God has given me. Yeah, no, i Nobody listen Tom. Just want

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:10

to be done. That is one thing that I also agree with, that God is not giving you that gift. But

Tom Helmich: 5:15

no, he's heard me try. It's not good. But I love your

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:19

joyful noise. I really do. I love when you put it. Have you wait sorry. Have you ever chanted for worship? You have escaped that in peace. Let us pray to the Lord.

Tom Helmich: 5:33

You have to be able to carry it. Wait

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:37

a second to do that. We have traditional Sunday coming up in May, are you here that Sunday?

Tom Helmich: 5:43

I don't know which Sunday that is. I don't think it's. I think

Pastor Joe Liles: 5:47

it's gonna be it's a Sunday. You're here because I think you're helping us lead. I think I'm gonna have you. Is it the senior son?

Tom Helmich: 5:53

Is it can't or chant, can't it's cancer, right? A canter, yeah? Cancer. People understand, because that's like, monks, yeah? Gore. Gregorian chant, yeah, which is different than, like, the like, the tones, correct?

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:07

I'm going to have you lead the canting in our traditional Sunday.

Tom Helmich: 6:12

It's gonna be so bad.

Unknown: 6:13

I thought you mentioned you weren't gonna be here for that. Well, we'll find out investments. So we're doing

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:20

everything. Sunday is coming, and it's gonna then I gotta, I

Tom Helmich: 6:23

get to see Joe. And yeah, vested

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:26

it's gonna be, because you'll see that the 21st two, yeah, that's right. All right, we're gonna start in our jingle. Are you ready? A, one, a, 2479367, 2285, neighborhood. Church. Yeah, you guys did so good. I appreciate that. Thank you for leading that. That is our church phone number. Incredible. Yeah. And I still don't

Tom Helmich: 6:52

quite have it memorized yet, and one of these days I'm gonna actually call it, just to see what it sounds like. It's great.

Pastor Joe Liles: 6:57

You know who answers that nobody Roseanne does

Tom Helmich: 7:00

now, yay. So you call it, somebody's gonna answer now.

Pastor Joe Liles: 7:03

That's right, that's great, Roseanne. You will get Roseanne between eight and five, between eight and five right after that, we're good to go. So So yeah, that is our church primary. You call it anytime, and Roseanne will answer your call and get back to you right away, which is absolutely wonderful. That is the new director of operations. So let's dig in a little bit. We've updated where we're at table. Is with family that's beautiful and and we're leading in a series right now called generosity. And generosity leads towards our next step. Sunday. Next step. Sunday is the day that we take a step up for the church and for God in our giving, and it basically helps set our year in a pace, really, for the budget, for what we can do in this community with everyone in the church, we celebrate on that day. So we got chef Troy coming in, kicking out of the mission kitchen for the first time ever, our own food truck. And we're going to be doing a breakfast tacos with chorizo. Oh man, chorizo and egg and potato and egg and cheese,

Tom Helmich: 7:53

like, like, homemade chorizo, or yes, okay, homemade

Pastor Joe Liles: 7:57

chorizo, right? Somebody's home, somebody, well, it's gonna be the mission kitchen's home. It's our it's our it's God's house. So Troy's

Unknown: 8:04

making the chorizo. Yes,

Pastor Joe Liles: 8:08

yeah, this is homemade. Call me stunned.

Unknown: 8:12

He's amazing. Yeah, amazing.

Pastor Joe Liles: 8:14

Chef, amazing chef. So, and then we're gonna have Tom. This is new information for you, because you weren't here last week, but I was talking with Chef Troy, walking tacos for the youth. Oh, I know. So good, right? How good is that gonna be? Now, mind you, that's not really breakfast. When's Oh, for that for March 9. March 9, next step Sunday. Walking tacos for you. We're thinking about doing it in the gather building, because we've

Tom Helmich: 8:32

done walking tacos with them before. It's great, and they love it. They love it. It's

Pastor Joe Liles: 8:35

gonna be awesome. So we want the youth to experience that building, kind of see what's going on. So we'll get some youth leaders over there helping out. We're gonna have the mission kitchen actually parked over here, so people can run across our courtyard and get food, which will be great. And then afternoon, afternoon, we're gonna do tacos, right? So we're gonna have some shredded pork. We're gonna have some brisket tacos. We're gonna, I know it's amazing, fancy, no beans. It's gonna, oh man, it's gonna be so good. And then we're going to do some sweets from Chef Jason Sue, who's in our mission kitchen right now. He's bringing the sweets. So he's bringing waffles on a stick for the morning, if you like. I've

Tom Helmich: 9:10

learned a lot from Chef Jason, so try to feed the youth and get it done more efficiently. Yeah. Awesome resource.

Pastor Joe Liles: 9:16

Awesome resource. So with that, and then he's going to do some sweets for the afternoon, too. So really good. It's just going to be really good. So that's coming up on March 9. This series generosity talks about how generous we are, from the book of Second Corinthians, towards our time, talents, gifts and giving, right as we lean in towards that day. Now, the important thing is that we started the series talking about, is there a limit to God's grace? And the answer is, No, there's not a limit to God's grace, but we do limit our own grace for others. And so we really talked about how we limit our grace and what that means that people have to earn their way back to us, and that grace is really this unmerited free gift from God, and that we need to live more Christ like in that manner towards others. This last week was the asking the question. And is one kind act enough to be a Christian, right? And we kind of raised that, and I love it, because we had a student, a youth, and the second service has said, What's one kind of act you've done this week? Now, mind you, snow everywhere this week, all the youth throughout for the entire week. And so he raised his hand, he's like, I shoveled my neighbor's driveway with snow. And I was like, That's it. That's a youth doing kind acts, right? Which is really incredible. And so I asked that among the church, it was awesome. Lot of different responses. But I wanted to open the question here before we read the Scripture, what is one kind act that you have done recently in your life, and what was the result of it? Wait, don't talk about I can't hear you both talking

Tom Helmich: 10:40

so yesterday, yeah? And I don't, it's a little different in the role that you and I are in, and that I'm kind of learning to step into, yeah? Because there's a different, like, when people think of, like, a kind act that's usually people think of something that's outside of their normal, what they normally do, correct, right? And, you know, something outside of their norm, whereas, you know, how do you judge that when you're like, in a pastoral role? Yeah? You know, so yesterday, I preached at St Luke yesterday, great and and we're finishing up the fellowship time. And one of the members there, their family had made homemade cinnamon rolls, and it was beautiful, awesome. Had a bunch of strawberries and stuff. It was really good, really good. Cinnamon Rolls went fast. It did. But a woman, somebody on house community, came in, her and her husband living out of their car, okay? And trying to, you know, getting from point A to point B to a place where they can have some place to stay. And she gets, you know, you know, some government assistance on a prepaid card. So, yeah, which is great, because you don't have to find a place to have your check mailed to, which is always an issue back in the old days, because if you didn't have an address, you couldn't even get your your check. And so they were out of gas, out of money, and, you know, nowhere to go. And so she just saw the church. So she pulled into Saint Luke and came in, and we're like, alright, we happen to have one. We got lemonade, we got a whole bunch of strawberries, and then we kind of took up, like an impromptu collection. And nobody. And, right, same thing, nobody carries cash anymore. Yeah, no. But one of the women that she manages all the fellowship stuff, and we have a coffee can, and they had people pitch in, you know, a couple, you know, change couple dollars. It goes towards buying the refreshments, the coffee and stuff like that for fellowship. And she's like, where's our coffee can? And she goes, coffee can out and just pull the cash out. Great, which would be fun we have that, that budget discussion on, you know, I remember her, you know, like, share the name for for that meeting. But then other people pitched in. And so she left with, like, a cup of lemonade, a big old thing full of strawberries and a wad of cash. Yeah, that's great. Just people, kind of, you know, took

Unknown: 12:35

up this collection. Yeah, it's amazing. And

Pastor Joe Liles: 12:36

this was at Sunday service, after the service, okay, so talk us through, like, how the service works at St Luke.

Tom Helmich: 12:43

Oh, yeah. So, like, that's how I grew up, right? I mean, like, one of the my favorite things about the Lutheran church was always the food after service. Oh, really nice. There was always, like, I would be trying to bolt out of the sanctuary beforehand to be the first one in line, yeah, for the cookies, because there's always food, yeah, a traditional Lutheran service. And so it'll get done to the sanctuary, go down to the fellowship hall that's got a kitchen and couches and stuff, and everybody sits there and hangs out and eats snacks and just visit and be community for about, about another full hour after, yeah, after service and so. And she had walked into the fellowship hall while we're, you know, towards the end of fellowship, yep. And just kind of, she's like, is there a, you know, pastor here. And, of course, that's me, right. So, yeah, well, this vicar Tom so I sit down talk to her and figure out what's going on. I said, let's see what we can do. And, and kind of, I didn't like announce it to everybody, no, it's great. So I went in the kitchen and get some stuff. There's what's going on. I said, Well, here's what's going on. And, well, go find the coffee can. And, you know, I start scrounging up cash for she walked out with money.

Pastor Joe Liles: 13:43

See, that's unprompted leadership in the church, which I think is the best expression of who we are as a church. We can plan serve events. We can plan to help people, right? We can put it through all the systems, all the checks and balances. We can send it up the ladder, right? And you have all the people approve it. Then there's the reality of someone coming and saying, I need help and just going, Hey, that's what we're here for. Like, we are here just to help. You need the

Tom Helmich: 14:03

initiation? Yeah, you know it's like, Have you ever put a coke in the freezer? I try not have, like, a really, really cold, like, and I hadn't done this in a while, so try not to drink Coke. But me and a friend of mine would go run 10 miles twice a week, yep, and we put a coke in the freezer, a can of Coke, so they would be just ice cold when we'd get done, because we were too young for beer at the time, you know? So, yeah, and there's a fine line between pouring that, that coke and it just being Ice, ice cold. And you set the glass down too hard, and there's that little change, that initiation, and all sudden, the whole thing freezes. Yeah. It's kind of the same thing with that leadership you're talking about, everybody's like, on the verge wants to do something, doesn't know what to do. And I was like, Oh, well, what do we do? And just because it's the unknown, it's outside of the norm. And you get one person who can step up and start something, and then that chain reaction hits, yeah, right. It flows through the whole, you know, that whole assembly there, yeah. And then something great comes out of it. Just gotta have. Somebody started

Pastor Joe Liles: 15:01

you, I mean, that's well, and I don't even think it's a start, right? It's, it's the culture, right? Like you've created a culture there that is not stated every Sunday, right? It's not, this is who we are. This is who we have to be. It's the moment someone walks in, it activates the culture that has been created. Right? If you have a culture of gratitude, a culture of generosity, right? Then what you witness is generosity, right, and not the questions. If you have a questioning culture that shifts right, like, why would we do this? Why are we taking like, that's money for coffee. We drink the coffee on Sunday. You know? Like, yeah, there's a ton of things that can be answered. I understand that. But the end of the day, if that culture of generosity is huge, that's an incredible kind deck. I really, really love that. I think it's incredible, because it's not one person. It's really the church that was responding to that kind act. That's great. What about you, Roseanne, what is one act of kindness that you shared this last week?

Unknown: 15:54

I can't I. I'm probably not a kind person. Oh my gosh. I can't think of anything. But didn't

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:06

you travel this last week to hang out with someone in a different state, Jaden? Didn't you go to visit Jaden this last week

Unknown: 16:15

on a Friday? Um, no, it was Joshua. It was Joshua. Okay, Joshua. I went to Joshua's Grandparents Day at his school,

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:22

yeah, like you drove how far?

Unknown: 16:25

I don't know. It's 900 miles, 100

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:29

miles to go to Grandparents Day at his school. Yeah, yeah. And how was that?

Unknown: 16:32

It was adorable. It was adorable. That is kindness, and I love being his grandma. There you go. And then I got to spend time with Jayden too. That's

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:43

great, that's right. And so yeah, when I think of kindness, and

Unknown: 16:47

I mean, the elephant in the room is that I provide housing for a houseless person,

Pastor Joe Liles: 16:54

Oh yes, oh yeah, that's great. We can't qualify that, right? Yeah, it is a failure, but it's very true, right? Like, yeah, there's kindness that you live every single day, yeah?

Unknown: 17:04

But also make it a point conscious effort not to block roads and driveways when I'm in Bentonville traffic.

Pastor Joe Liles: 17:12

Oh, wow. Kind of hot Rosanna, what pipe down with the whole Have

Unknown: 17:16

you been in Bentonville traffic? Yeah, so, but I try to make a conscious effort and be kind and not block roads so people can get where they're going and open doors for people. And absolutely,

Pastor Joe Liles: 17:30

yeah, so I want to kind of go back to like, the fact of living with her sister, walking with her every day, right? Which is a beautiful expression, yeah, it's where I took the message on Sunday, right? And I said, and I felt kind of bad, to be honest, we had the wonderful youth talking about shoveling snow, yeah, and we're doing all this in the but my next point, the message was that one kind act doesn't mean you're a Christian. And so like, behind the scenes, I was like, wait, I just celebrated you, and I'm about to be like, not enough, you know, wait, there's more. And so the next point that I said in worship was, I said it's, it's one kind act that's beautiful, but it doesn't. If it doesn't have a connection to a personal relationship with Jesus, then that's not the Christian life we're leaning towards. And what I meant to draw from conclusion is not guilt and shame, right? Because a lot of people like, oh man, like, I just do kind things, right? No one, if you're doing that kindness from your relationship with God, that's a connection to Jesus. The next step in that like, that's the first connection. The next step in that is, how do you then talk about that relationship when you're doing the kind that, where do you find that moment to communicate what God has done in your life and why you're doing this right in order to almost create a pathway for someone to experience Jesus, right? And then next I said one kind act is not enough. And I kind of said it in this way, which I really appreciate it, because it's a way I think about churches, is that one kind act is not enough, right to be a Christian, one moment is not enough to create a culture, right? And one relationship is not enough to create a community. Everything that we're trying to do in church, right, involves a moment after moment after relationship after relationship after act after act. It is a lifetime of faith that we move through, and we can't just do one moment.

Tom Helmich: 19:15

Yeah, it's not a check, it's not a checklist. You can't be like, check. I've done that. No, there's no points. It's good. There's

Pastor Joe Liles: 19:20

no points. And here's the hardest part, and I think this might be the largest struggle that we have in the church, is that it never ends. But if you choose to be a Christian, right? And you choose Christ in your life to be the center of your life, your work in the kingdom never ends. And then what I shared last week is that and sometimes you don't get to see the results, right? Like you don't get to see the results of your grace or your kindness or your act. It's not, maybe even meant for you to see. It's meant for someone other to see or to experience or to feel in their relationship with God, and you were just a seed planted along the way. And so this, it's a hard reality. Reality being Christians in this role, and

Tom Helmich: 20:02

I think it comes down it's not the what, it's the why, you know, like, why they were doing these things. Because otherwise it sounds ominous. It sounds almost, almost crushing, that, Oh, this one thing is, you know, one thing isn't enough, you know. But then the flip side is, you can't try to chase success at that, to try to to establish yourself. But if you have the why of the faith, then those tiny little things that you do over and over and over and over create that culture and create that that norm and that population that can build to, you know, to amazing, amazing things. It's, it's because it comes out of a why, yep, of who we are and what our faith inspires us towards. Yeah.

Unknown: 20:42

The point is, I serve God, therefore I will serve you. Mm, hmm,

Pastor Joe Liles: 20:47

absolutely. So let's take a second then and read a little bit about what it means to serve God. The text that we're going to read is in second Corinthians. And in Second Corinthians, we're really talking through a really special text, and it's a text that starts with the words. The point is, which is so rare in text. I mean, I can only think of maybe one or two other examples where, like, here's the answer when, like, Christ is speaking to the disciples, and they're like, We don't understand. And he's like, Fine, here's what the parable means. Like, here's what I'm trying to tell you in this right? Real simple for you, real simple. I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring it all the way down, and that's what we're getting in this text, right? So it's Second Corinthians, chapter nine, verses six through 15, and Roseanne, why don't you start us off with reading six through nine? Okay, read 10 through 12, and then Tom, if you can read 13 through 15, that'd be great.

Unknown: 21:37

Alright, I'm going to get started. The point is this, the one who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and the one who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each of you must give as you have made up your mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver, and God is able to provide you with every blessing and abundance, so that by always having enough of everything, you may share abundantly in every good work, as it is written, He scatters abroad, he gives to the poor. His righteousness endures forever,

Pastor Joe Liles: 22:18

and then, beginning in verse 10, he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness. You will be enriched in every way for your great generosity, which will produce thanksgiving to God through us for the rendering of this ministry not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also overflows with the many Thanksgivings to God.

Tom Helmich: 22:48

Through the testing of this ministry, you glorify God by your obedience to the confession of the gospel of Christ and by the generosity of your sharing with them and with all others while they long for you and pray for you because of this surprising grace of God that He has given you. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift.

Pastor Joe Liles: 23:10

I love that text. Amen, is right. I love that text. Um, what I would love to ask in this text is one. It starts with the point is this. And it says, If you sow, right? If you sow sparingly, you're going to reap sparingly, right? If you do things as one act, you're going to reap one act, right? If you sow bountifully, you will reap bountifully, which I love. And then it talks about how God fulfills that promise later on. But what I wonder is that, as you guys are reading the text, what part of this text? And this is a great way to begin any reading of text. If you are reading scripture and you're reading it through and you really want to study scripture as you read scripture, I just want you to stop when your mind stops. And why did you stop there when you're reading what hit you in this text, and then discern what experience in your life led you to stop at this point to really understand the text. So what in this text stopped either of you when we are reading it to go, Oh, that's interesting, or, Oh, I hadn't heard that before. What part of the text was that?

Unknown: 24:12

What makes my heart beat a little faster, I think, is this, and God is able to provide you with every blessing and abundance, so that by always having enough of everything you may share abundantly in every good work. That really, that really just makes my heart soar because

Pastor Joe Liles: 24:41

sore s o r, e or S O A R, sword,

Unknown: 24:45

S O A R, sore to the heights. Yes, I thought you meant sore. No, not painful, but just the thought that, as God provides for me, I can then give abundantly for. I'm that,

Pastor Joe Liles: 25:01

yeah, absolutely, yeah. I concentrate on the message. Yesterday, I was like, it's abundant. It's blessings. Every blessing abundantly. So like, doubling up on the blessings. And then it was in every good work and always having enough, and always, always everything, everywhere, good work. And it was just this moment where God's like, if you trust me, I will supply every need, right? If you so generously, right, if you so bountifully in your life, right, which means, if you continue this faithful work, I will supply every need, and I trust that now implicitly in my life, not because I trusted it to begin with, implicitly, but because I have experienced it over and over and over again to where now it is not a question for me anymore. If I so bountifully, I know that God is alongside of me, not waiting for me to so bountifully, God's work continues, but responding right when I respond in faith to the grace of God, it is trusting that God is always with me right in everything that I do. So you love that part of the text. Love that I do too. What about you? Tom

Tom Helmich: 26:02

so this, when it says, we are through the testing of this ministry, you glorify God by your obedience to the confession of the gospel of Christ and by the generosity of your sharing with them and with all others. Yeah, you know that's, that's the the why it's, it's this obedience to the confession of the gospel. It's the reason why you do it, and that's a big difference. And if you're doing it so that you look good to other people, or you do it because you want to go to heaven, rather than you're doing it out of obedience and confession of the gospel. And that that inspires you to do these things, and it comes from them, then it can be a great and beautiful thing. Now,

Pastor Joe Liles: 26:43

that's a heady verse, right? It's a very theological verse. So I want to break that down a little bit, because I think we can easily say that, right, and and we can speak it, and we're like, oh yeah, confession of the gospel, absolutely testing of this ministry. Oh, I get all those words right? Like, that's great. When I hear confession of the gospel, it almost makes me, even as a pastor, go, What do you mean by confession of the gospel? Like the I know the gospel. I know the gospel means. I know the story of the Gospels. When you say, confess the gospel, right? That means a lot. So, yeah,

Tom Helmich: 27:14

that's like, confess. It's almost like the the heralding of it, right? It's, it's your the confession of your mouth, of you, you living out and being a witness to it. It's like you're, you're doing the things the gospel calls for people to do, yep, as a result of what Jesus has done for us.

Pastor Joe Liles: 27:30

Well, so that that's the confession, right? What Jesus has done for us, right? So what would you say when it says, hey, I want you to be obedient to the because it's funny, because I stopped doing testing on Sunday, I was, like, testing this ministry, oh, that's gonna get tested. Like, oh, there's a test. Yeah, right. I didn't hit obedience. So, like, as a podcast breakdown, I love this, right? Like, we can now break down obedience, right? What do you think Tom that means obedience to the confession of the gospel?

Tom Helmich: 27:56

Well, we were called to love our neighbor. Okay, you know Jesus loved us. He said, because Jesus has loved us, we are to love those around us, love those as Jesus has loved us. Yeah, that because of what Jesus has done for us, we will inherit eternal life, and it's something that we don't have to do. We don't have to earn, we don't have to work for. It is a free gift by the grace of God, and because of that, we go out and love our neighbors, and that's where we get into this, this testing like, are you, you say you have faith, or do you really have faith? Are you going to be obedient to that and actually go out and actually love your neighbor? Who is different? Who is different? Yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 28:38

different neighbors. Yet. Roseanne, we're trying to love people that we already love. And trying to do that the right way. Oh, yeah, different neighbors.

Tom Helmich: 28:45

Yeah, that's it's that, that calling, right? When Jesus said, you know, to Peter, do you love me? He said, Yes. He said, Then feed my sheep. Yeah, right, right. So it's

Pastor Joe Liles: 28:56

but he said it again, three times, three times, three times clear. I love that verse, because he's like, Peter, you do not understand what I'm asking. And Peter's getting frustrated and told you, I mean, why do you have to ask me three times? Because I denied you three times. I mean, like, actually,

Tom Helmich: 29:12

a whole another part of that. But, yeah, it's, you know, the the idea that they said they're going to raise this money to go to the church in Jerusalem, you know, this is a, this is a kind of like our next step Sunday, you know, related to, they're right, raising money to do things for the for the church, right? And being generous. And, but are you being generous for the glory of the church? Are you being generous for love of neighbor and through that showing the glory of God?

Pastor Joe Liles: 29:39

So this is interesting. So you

Tom Helmich: 29:41

got that smile on? Here we

Unknown: 29:44

go. Excited right now, there's some theology coming out of that brain.

Pastor Joe Liles: 29:47

Hey, look, I love studying the Bible. Um, okay, so I love you commented on gospel, right? What you said is to love your neighbor, right? It's just

Tom Helmich: 29:55

great. Well, it's love your neighbor comes from the Gospel comes from the good news of Jesus Christ. Okay,

Pastor Joe Liles: 30:00

so what? So let me break this down. I mean, I really want to open this up for people. When we say confession of the gospel, right, which I think is a common terminology that we've been using church, I think of confession of the gospel, and I'm like, okay, the gospel, to me, right, is the good news of Jesus Christ. Break it down. The good news of Jesus Christ. I mean, if we're going to break down, if I were to tell people, This is what the gospel means it is the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, right? It is the promise of the kingdom. So the ascension moment, for me, is

Tom Helmich: 30:27

the promise. It's those things done for us, correct, right?

Pastor Joe Liles: 30:31

This is the grace of God represented in the life of Jesus Christ, right, the Word made flesh into the promise of the kingdom. You have to have this kind of this movement in the gospel, he didn't

Tom Helmich: 30:42

do it just because he thought it would be. It was not

Pastor Joe Liles: 30:46

the whole message, which we get wrong constantly. The whole message about being on this earth was, there is a kingdom of heaven. That's the message. It's not, I can do miracles. You should pray. It's not, hey, I can heal you. It's not Hey, start churches. That's never the message of the gospel. The gospel is, I came to forgive you for your sins, right? Because we're Satan, sinner, right? I came to forgive you for your sins. I came to restore you and redeem you to a relationship with God that has a promise of an eternity with God in the future, in the kingdom. That's the gospel narrative. I love that right? The word obedience, to me, is the most powerful word

Tom Helmich: 31:22

in that statement. We're not good at that.

Pastor Joe Liles: 31:25

So powerful, right? The word obedience in Scripture, which is very interesting, right? It doesn't really mean obedience in Greek, right? Obedience is a way for us to understand it, but in Greek, this word is to subject yourself, to submit, to submit to, oh, man, like it's so tough, because it's a humbling like, we have to submit to the Gospel, right? And submit ourselves underneath the gospel of Jesus Christ, right? Everything we do is an effort to live our lives towards this gospel. And the confession of the Gospel, the confession is that Jesus has done the work, and because of this, we are faithful in our response. I mean, it's everything we talked about in the message, but this obedience, right? And it says so. It begins with the testing of this ministry, right? The proving of your ministry, the proving of your life is, Are you obedient? Are you humble enough to subject yourself right to the confession of the gospel, which says that Jesus Christ loves me for who I am, forgives me for who I am. In confession and repentance, you cannot just live into a state of sin. You have to confess and repent. Right? That's a part of this nature. And then has a promise for me in the kingdom of heaven. Are you willing to humble yourself and submit to that confession? Right? Oh, and here's, here's where we get stuck. I might submit that there's grace in life. I might submit that I've been forgiven. It's really hard me first confess my sins. It's really hard for me.

Tom Helmich: 32:51

We're everybody's all too willing to talk about and point out the sins of other people, but nobody wants to talk about

Pastor Joe Liles: 32:59

their own. Oh, and you know where, where this first message went and compassion, shared suffering. The time when I most relate to people is when we share our suffering, right? We

Tom Helmich: 33:10

share you get that, find that community of what is alike in each other. Oh, absolutely.

Pastor Joe Liles: 33:16

And what is it like? Is that we are broken and need of redemption, seeking after God, that is what we're like. Instead, we don't confess that we're broken. We are like and seeking after God, right? That's what we try to confess. And I think the church would be a wonderful expression of a broken community, right, that is actively trying to work on themselves,

Tom Helmich: 33:33

which is different than what a lot of society will say that the church is. That's the good people of society go to the church, yeah, but that misses the point

Unknown: 33:41

that people, yeah, people say I'm not good enough to go to church, right? Well, sick people aren't in the hospital, and by the

Tom Helmich: 33:49

fact that you're leading the church, right?

Pastor Joe Liles: 33:52

I love the hospital analogy, right? Yeah, people don't go to the hospital. And I was like, what? I was like, aren't we always trying to eat healthy? Are we always trying to exercise, maintain our health through these different things? I was like the hospitals for crisis, right, when that happens in our life, right? Or for continued health, right? Or for injury, like pregnancy or the table, right? Like the hospital, yeah, great space where new things can happen. But at the same time, the church is not a space only to come in crisis. The church is a space where we continually work on the things that promote spiritual healthiness, right? And it's that

Tom Helmich: 34:22

community. I mean, when, when we talked to the the woman yesterday that, yeah, it was out of gas and, you know, or nearly out of gas at the parking lot, and we're walking out, and my wife, she's like, you know, this is why it's so important to have community, yeah, to have people to help, to lift us up when we're on our down days. Yeah, right, yeah. Hope is not everybody is on the down day at all the same time, right? You get everybody together, and there are people that, at times, they can lift people up, and then the other days they're going to be the ones that are lifted up by the other people, absolutely. And we need that community to be able to to function and go throughout life and to continue be church. Yeah, you know, I think that's why there's, you know, there's the 12 this. Bibles they could because every one of them fell at some point in time. Oh, absolutely. But they were everywhere. There were others to lift them up. Yeah, and, and everybody gets so frustrated when, like, thinking about being a pastor. I'm like, I remember the first time it hit me. It was an in 2005 oh, wow, okay, when I was getting ready to graduate my bachelor's degree at junior Brown and they had a master's program. I don't know if I know this story. Do I know this? The story. Do I know the story? They had a master's program that they were advertising for. It was like a two or three year program for Christian counseling. Great. And when I saw that, I didn't think about being a counselor, it made me think about being a pastor, because of what pastors do is Christian counseling. Oh, God, faith counseling. Yeah. And then the next thought came to my mind is like, Well, I'm not good enough to do that. I'm not faithful enough to do that. Yeah, you know, I can't do that. I'm just a cop, right? Well, but then you look at Peter,

Unknown: 35:49

yeah, look

Tom Helmich: 35:50

at anybody the cornerstone of the church, yeah, right, yeah. Denied Jesus three times. Oh, you know, even, even through Judas sin, he was trying, you know what he was doing, his sin was towards the fulfillment of Christ's purpose, whereas, yeah, Peter opposed it. Well, if, if Peter Can, can be that, then I guess God can find a way to use me too. Is that? Yeah, that's true in every one of us. And it doesn't matter where you're at.

Pastor Joe Liles: 36:11

And, oh, yeah. I mean, that's such an important narrative about what it means. And I love that you said community, right? Because I was meeting with a new, new person at the church this morning, right? And and we had a great hour and a half conversation over coffee, beautiful. And the end of the conversation, he goes, change church, because this whole vision to change church, he goes, what is that? And I said, Well, it's actually interesting, because on its face value, it seems like we're out here to change church, like it's going to be totally different. I said, Yeah, that's a part of what we do, especially as like Lutherans, like we don't look like other Lutheran churches, right? And we haven't been geared towards that way, and we're trying new things, and we're innovative, and we want to explore and test things. I said, there's a changed reality there. I said, but that's not really where it came from. And he goes, what? And I said, Yeah, change church is a little bit different. I said, you're the best example of change church. And he goes, Okay, somewhat, right? And I was like, great. And I was like, well, it's changed church period, right? And I said, the reason we put change church period is because, when you walk into our church with your gifts and your family, with your experience of having moved here and been from somewhere else and coming in and sharing that we are no longer the same church, I no longer know who we are, until we have relationship with one another. I said, so this change church create relationship. Vision is really we are a new church and in a constant state of discovery every time someone new walks in, because we're discovering, how do you get the body, how do the how do you fit in our community? Where are you going to line up in our community? How do we get you connected to the resources and different things that we're doing? And then, how do you impact us? What experiences do you have of God that you can share with us that will change the life of our church, right? And I want to hear those experiences, right? And I said, You are the best example of change church, because you are here. We are going to change in the next six months, and I don't know who we're going to be, and as like I exist in that space, yeah, God. God

Tom Helmich: 37:57

blesses and empowers our ministry, yeah, through gifts. And the most important gifts we get in that from God are the people that come Absolutely, I mean, and it's, it happens at certain times where we need certain people, like with Tyra and with the ALPA trees, and people like, when COVID hit, Oh, yeah. How do we do church in a Digital Adaptation, right? By the way, I happen to kind of, you know, do that. Great. We've got that. And because the what is, what is church? Yeah, you know. And a lot of people think of a church as either the building or the institution, yeah, no, but church is the is the community, it's the body of Christ, yeah. I mean, that's because that's the word, you know. And when we translate it into church, when we read it in in the Greek, it's ecclesia, you know. And it's, it's this, it means a gathered body, you know. It's, it's the group of people, but then the word church is turned into a bill, oh, yeah, absolutely, you know. And there's all kinds of really geeky linguistic that, linguistics I love about that with boring ways, yeah, right. But we kind of lost the identity of what church is, yep, which is what's great about that statement of change church? Well,

Pastor Joe Liles: 38:54

I told them too that we trapped church on a Sunday, right, which is crazy. We trapped church on a Sunday for one hour right of our week, right where we have to meet this unknown time, right? That is created for people in their lives to say, Hey, who are we as a church, right? And I said, Hey, who we are as a church is one expression. Is this Sunday. We are many expressions of what God has called

Tom Helmich: 39:13

us to, which is something I did not grow up with. I mean, I grew up, Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's right. Neither did I enemy church was the building, and then we went to to gather, to be church, like to be part of the building. I thought my mind kind of, you know, because that's all we really did. There was other stuff, probably, as a teenager, and I didn't want to get up in the morning go do all the things that people did. I'm sure there were other outreach, but then getting here and seeing it, I mean, there's the mission kitchen, there's the for the love partnerships, there's the youth on Wednesday. I mean, there is, I look at our calendar

Unknown: 39:43

and I'm like, yeah, oh, wow, all the community.

Tom Helmich: 39:48

It's yeah, church should be that and, oh, by the way, also we happen to get together on Sunday morning to to learn and to worship and to praise God in the sing song, celebrate our together,

Unknown: 39:58

together, to be able to go out. And do those acts of kindness, but the

Tom Helmich: 40:01

purpose all sudden switch to become that Sunday morning reality, yeah, when that Sunday morning should be like a celebration leading into the week of this is we're going to get together and do this, and then we're going to go out and be, yeah, church, and all the rest of it got cut off, and it just turned into Sunday morning, yeah, which is a huge change for which is

Pastor Joe Liles: 40:17

what we have to change, right? That's a huge reality. Roseanne, what was your church? What was church to you? Church in quotes. What was church to you growing up like, what was your experience, or even, maybe even into adulthood, and how is the neighborhood being here different for you? Oh

Unknown: 40:33

my gosh, what a loaded question. So church for me, growing up, grew up Catholic in a very non Did you hear

Pastor Joe Liles: 40:41

that Tom? She grew up Catholic, non reformation language, Roman, yeah,

Unknown: 40:45

but grew up Catholic in a very non Catholic area. Oh, interesting. Okay, yes, small town. Most of my growing up, we had a priest that came from Rogers or Springdale. So we were a mission church, but church was the place we went on Sundays, sometimes Saturdays, whatever the priest could work out. And church was my family, yeah, because it was just the five of us, my two sisters and my parents, I um, and we did at different times, we had catechism, and I was involved with the the youth organization, but I didn't know What church was back then. Okay, so fast forward, adulthood going to a Pentecostal church. Oh, wow, yeah, that did

Pastor Joe Liles: 41:50

not come up in your interview. Roseanne,

Unknown: 41:54

I'm surprised it didn't that. Yeah. So Pentecostal church, and it was a very much a family church. It is the the family. What

Pastor Joe Liles: 42:03

level of Pentecost are we talking? Speaking in tongues, oh yeah, dancing, oh yeah. Okay, all right,

Unknown: 42:08

yeah. I gotta get to a Pentecost music and, oh my gosh, yeah, I want to experience the Pentecost it Yes, though the whole thing so but it was very much family oriented in the family that I was married into so But, and this is so embarrassing, but I'm reading. I'm sitting there reading the Bible, and I'm like, we read the Bible when I was growing up. No, I don't know why I did not equate the readings. Yeah, it's so embarrassing with the Bible, yeah,

Pastor Joe Liles: 42:48

but I realized in your house you were reading the

Unknown: 42:51

Bible. No, no, no, it was in church. I mean, yeah, but yeah, they thought I got possessed, yeah, right. Oh

Tom Helmich: 42:58

my gosh, this is the Bible, yeah? Because the way it's done, because the like, the Roman Catholic, like, they're not a whole lot different than the Lutheran. It's

Unknown: 43:06

not at all. Yeah, you read from the Old Testament, the New Testament, and then the Gospels. But, and I knew it was the Old Testament and the New Testament and the Gospels, I had no idea it was the Bible. It's embarrassing. No, it's

Pastor Joe Liles: 43:22

not embarrassing. That's what we need to learn from as pastors, because we've so long been infused with knowing the Scripture, right, read Scripture that sometimes we just pass over that like so when you hear me on a Sunday, I walked on Sunday, I walked people all through what the Bible was, right? I was like, this is the New Testament. Tells the story of Jesus Christ all the way through birth, resurrection, ascension, start of the early church, letters to the churches, right? And then you have kind of apocalyptic revelation literature. And I was like, but there's two testaments. Old Testament, right? Is the story of Israel, right? And God's people, the relationship to God. And then you have the prophecies through the minor and major prophets, right, that come through. And you have some poetry in there. It's beautiful. And I said that there's a 400 gap. And then on Sunday, I was like, Okay, now that we're in the Gospels. Gospels gospels are four different perspectives, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And then you have acts in Romans, acts as the start of early church. Letter to the Romans, First and Second Corinthians. And I said, that's how you get it. But the reason I do that is specifically for this. We come in and go great, turn to second Corinthians. And people are like, and, and

Tom Helmich: 44:15

this is a lot of stuff I didn't really know until, like, getting into seminary, even some of it. But then when you don't know, most people, they don't want to admit they don't know, and so they don't ever learn it, right? But then, if we assume that everybody knows, and then we gloss over it, but then I don't want to admit, Hey, what's that mean? Because not very often, somebody will bring that up and honest about stuff true. And I,

Unknown: 44:35

I learned the most from teaching Sunday school. Wow, that's

Pastor Joe Liles: 44:39

great. Yeah, that's important forces to prepare. This is one. When you teach it, you learn it differently. You don't have to know it prior to that, but if you have a great mentor next to you, someone helping you to learn it, and then you teach it, it's great. Well, that's

Tom Helmich: 44:52

the test, right? Like the traditional model of learning is you present the material, you try to study it and learn it, and then you're tested only when you're. Teaching it the test as you being right to teach it to them correct and know that right

Unknown: 45:04

and that you know learning any any job you have to learn it, and then you prove you know it by teaching it to someone else. And so, yeah. So then after Pentecostal chart, yeah, they didn't appreciate me putting a sign in the back of my car that said, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last. Oh, wow, so I had to leave there. Oh,

Pastor Joe Liles: 45:34

wow. That changed quick. Yeah,

Unknown: 45:39

there's the story there. But then, then I went to Assembly of God, and then I met David, and he had was not active in church, but had gone to the Methodist church in town. And so we started going there. And then we moved to this area, Bentonville, Rogers area, so that's great, yeah. And then we follow my daughter and grandson to the neighborhood church. That's

Pastor Joe Liles: 46:05

awesome. That's awesome. I love that story, yeah. So this is community, right? And I think what you know we discovered today is that it takes everyone in the community sowing bountifully, right, using all their gifts every single day in order to impact the kingdom. And that's the true reality of church. That's the true reality of the gathered body, right? So we gather on a Sunday, we scatter them out into the world, and we hope that they take the lessons from a church and use them, right? So this series continues right next Sunday, we're going to continue with generosity, and we're going to lead all the way into the next step Sunday, which is great. Tyra is going to be here on Sunday, leading worship for the first time, so that's exciting. And so, yeah, there's a great week coming up, and we'll look forward to seeing table back here, hosting the podcast eight weeks from now. Yeah, eight weeks from now, which is gonna be after Easter.

Tom Helmich: 46:49

You're gonna be jingle by yourself. I

Pastor Joe Liles: 46:51

know we'll have Tyron. Tyron, oh, okay, man, we're gonna up the jingle.

Unknown: 46:58

He's gonna typo is gonna have some great stories, though, yeah, there's

Pastor Joe Liles: 47:02

gonna be a lot of bad stories coming up. Yeah, yeah, all right, and all guys, people said, Hey, man, you.